Oh Kew, not you too.......

Loved this article in the Critic

https://thecritic.co.uk/queering-nature-wont-save-it/

It puts its finger on something that's bothered me but I couldn't articulate. That nature is being appropriated to validate an ideology, not that nature would care I suppose. This ideology has form for this type of thing though.

How does any plant, queer or otherwise, get to have an identity?

They've been at the mushrooms again!

"Hi there, our aim with this festival is to not only celebrate the diversity in the natural world, but also the association between plants and flowers with queer identities - we want to amplify queer voices through art, allowing for new conversations!"

https://twitter.com/kewgardens/status/1704150070386401502

Flowers with queer identities FFS.

But how do the plants identify? Has anybody asked them?

Not surpised at this. Many of their signs around the gardens which feature staff members or researchers feature pronouns. Everything needs to be Queerified.

Asking someone to evidence an assertion isn't aggressive or horrid or an example of anyone failing to educate themselves.

It's just how adult discourse works.

If I say 'You're a nine foot giant with massive hands!' and you responded 'wtf, prove it!' and I just turned round and said that was really horrid of you to ask and why should I do the work in proving that, and you needed educate yourself, I'm pretty sure you'd be a bit 'WTAF' about what I said. Because it's absurd.

That's pretty much how I feel here. You've made a couple of pretty unpleasant assertions, you've been asked (very politely) to show why you've come to those conclusions. And you can't.

Throwing 'educate yourself' and 'do the work' doesn't work in this particular instance.

I've just reread the entire thread. I have no idea what you are talking about.

@MrsDanversGlidesAgain

Not my job to do your work for you.
Do it your self.

jeez.

but I don't you can see the horrid comments it's would appear.

and it's not my job to educate yourself either.

jeez

Well, it's unlikely @Talltall is reading this (or anyone else) but for that poster's benefit this is how it works when you say 'there's bad stuff on here.' We respond with 'oh really, care to tell us what?' and you say 'well someone made this racist/sexist/homophobic/anti whatever remark upthread' and you quote it. Then we can say 'oh jeepers, that's bad, have you reported it?' if we think this is 'bad stuff' or whether you might be slightly overreacting. What you don't do is say, 'well educate yourself.' For a start, it's such a weary overdone knee jerk reaction. For a second, I've no idea what you call 'bad stuff.' For a third, it's a commonly accepted that you make the claim, you back it up. If you don't then we're quite entitled to assume you're just making it up and ignore anything you have to say. Which frankly, in this poster's case, doesn't appear to be anything constructive but more the alleviation of boredom on a hot weekend afternoon by being unpleasant to other posters.

OK, I've looked back over @Talltall's last few posts. How very surprising that when asked for evidence to back up a sweeping accusation Talltall's response is to tell Mrs Danvers to educate herself. I also see no evidence whatsoever that Mrs Danvers is upset, nor that she's posted against others or said anything inappropriate.

Talltall · Today 11:45
@Clymene
jeepers you might want to try and listen to you self.
you seems very angry person
have you considered seeking some help?

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · Today 12:37
'Oooh, you sound angry' is a standard putdown when the poster can't think of anything else to say but feels the need to say something. A lot of people don't find anger acceptable in a woman so used as an insult and to mean 'why can't you just be nice and not disagree like proper women do?'

Talltall · Today 15:20
@MrsDanversGlidesAgain
good grief.
syaying what someone says is a put down is standard.......
there are a lot of people saying bad stuff here

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · Today 17:09
there are a lot of people saying bad stuff here
Evidence, please.

Talltall · Today 17:28
@MrsDanversGlidesAgain
educate your self why are you asking others to do it?
I suppose that's a bad thing to say too!
or am I wrong in assuming you can read English well. As you seem to be able to type it?
I find it funny and disappointingly sad when people post against others and then get upset when they are called out for saying inappropriate things

Who is saying there is no effect of movement of plants?

The point is that the movement of plants when people move, the transfer of plants between peoples, the adoption or introduction of new plants, is not somehow unique to the colonial period. It happened when ever people moved, conquered other people, came in contact with new places or people.

You can talk about any period of history where that happened, in particular, if that is your interest. But that doesn't make the movement of plants through human action a colonialist phenomena per se. Peoples all across the world brought plants they saw as important or useful to new places, with sometimes dramatic effects.

I'm drawing a distinction between saying - these are things that happened during the colonial period, as Europeans moved a lot around the world - which is as legitimate as looking at any other peoples in any other time - as opposed to saying, this is a colonialist phenomena. It's like saying war is a colonialist phenomena. It's not.

@MrsDanversGlidesAgain

educate your self why are you asking others to do it?

I suppose that's a bad thing to say too!

or am I wrong in assuming you can read English well. As you seem to be able to type it?

I find it funny and disappointingly sad when people post against others and then get upset when they are called out for saying inappropriate things

Another place added to the boycott list.

there are a lot of people saying bad stuff here

Evidence, please.

Like accusing someone of being angry for no reason you mean?

@MrsDanversGlidesAgain

good grief.

syaying what someone says is a put down is standard.......

there are a lot of people saying bad stuff here

Lol I remember when they used to ask africans and then arabs why they were so angry 😅. Plus ça change...

'Oooh, you sound angry' is a standard putdown when the poster can't think of anything else to say but feels the need to say something. A lot of people don't find anger acceptable in a woman so used as an insult and to mean 'why can't you just be nice and not disagree like proper women do?'

Clymene isn't posting angry posts. What an odd comment.

@Clymene

jeepers you might want to try and listen to you self.
you seems very angry person
have you considered seeking some help?

It's very interesting, very significant, but the only reason to call it colonialism is to attach it to a politicized buzzword and make it look like it was some sort of unique, exploitative European thing.

Colonialism actually existed you know. It affected the movement of plants and of people in particular ways and created misery for many and riches for others - often based on 'the movement of plants' and certainly people. Colonialism affected my family and my existence in particular ways so I'll politely agree with your casual brushing off here and step aside.

You wrote a really long reply which didn't actually answer the question. If anyone is lacking in comprehension skills around here, it isn't me.

You replied, you didn't actually address the question asked....

@Talltall Thanks, I answered their question but there's not much I can do about their lack of comprehension. Tis often the case, alas!

I'm not sure how you're getting the impression I'm angry. I asked Doja a question: I'm a bit bemused by you drawing parallels between toys which reflect different ethnicities and anthropomorphising plants. Can you explain the link?

which they declined to answer.

Im sure people can draw their own conclusions as to why that might be