New sports club at DC’s high school only open to LGBTQ+ pupils and their allies

@SirChenjins

What you described sounds like sexual harassment and nothing to do with trans, she needs to report the unwanted attention. No need to mention trans status, you are free decline anyone's advances. Just say no applies to all whatsoever gender

The problem is that there's huge amounts of homophobia in traditional male sports, especially team sports (interestingly not in female sports where my dd found she was sometimes in the minority being straight) this club is to try and reach a group that traditionally has been excluded from sports and allowing allies means they can come with a friend, perhaps those not "out" yet or those who also don't feel comfortable in testosterone fuelled team sports. I don't see it as discrimination I see it as correcting a situation that exists.

So how does it work in this ping pong club then? Do they have some pledge of allegiance type thing that everyone has to recite, hand on heart, before they are allowed in?

No because the ping pong club hasn't been badged as only for kids.who hold x political belief and their allies. It's just the ping pong club for kids who went to play pong pong. Which imho is the criteria which should be applied to those joining the ping pong club

Or do you think the word ‘ally’ simply means - don’t be a dick to the gay kids? Don’t call them names, refuse to play a game with them, shoot them looks, snigger, exclude them, make snide remarks, make jokes at their expense? All of which happens everyday to most LGBTQ kids on a weekly if not daily basis.

Who has done any of those things? Who has suggested doing them? PP are objecting to a sports club excluding kids who don't subscribe to a political belief. Do you think Muslim kids should have to declare themselves allies of Sikhs, to join the chess club? And if not, how is this different?

And again, what about lesbian kids who don't believe male bodied people can be lesbians? Are they welcome?

This isn't about homophobia and not wanting to be in the same room as people with a different sexual orientation. It's about having to claim you are an ally which would include agreeing that TWAW. If a child is GC so does not agree that TWAW then they are not seen as ally.

This is getting ridiculous, @Perhapsperhapsto. Can you please respond to the OP’s post giving the example of a young lesbian called Jess?

Why should any child not have equal access to a sports club?

It's not just straight boys who are potentially excluded here, as people have been at pains to point out. Is there a reason why you are choosing not to engage with these points?

It's also worth noting that framing people, particularly boys, as being privileged and thus deserving of unequal treatment on the basis that other people who shared some characteristics that they share (e.g. male and straight) have historically oppressed people who share some characteristics that the other group share (e.g. female, trans or same sex attracted) is a really fantastic way of sowing further division and resentment. Why do you think so many teenage boys are suddenly obsessed with Andrew Tate?

Your Op was annoyed about straight boys not having equal access to the club.

‘The school does not offer this particular sports club to children who are not ready to declare their sexuality, or their gender, or who hold GC views, or no views on gender. Otoh, no LGBetc child is excluded from the other sports clubs for their beliefs. Ergo, it is not equal.’

So how does it work in this ping pong club then? Do they have some pledge of allegiance type thing that everyone has to recite, hand on heart, before they are allowed in? Or do you think the word ‘ally’
simply means -
don’t be a dick to the gay kids? Don’t call them names, refuse to play a game with them, shoot them looks, snigger, exclude them, make snide remarks, make jokes at their expense? All of which happens everyday to most LGBTQ kids on a weekly if not daily basis.

You are aware that gay kids come in all shapes and sizes with all manner of beliefs and opinions? There’s no one big ‘ideology’ we gays all subscribe to?

How old is your son, out of interest? This child with such strong ‘GC’ beliefs that he can’t even be in a room with gay, lesbian, bi, or possibly even trans children?

I hope that everyone who’s been ignoring us so far will notice @SirChenjins‘s post and understand why anything calling itself LGBTQ is problematic for lesbians like Jess.

As a non compliant lesbian, she will not be regarded as an 'ally' and this group would not be for her.

It's based on religious/political submission. As you say: not a protected characteristic, just masquerading as one.

There has to be some point to it, e.g. some reason why this particular thing needs to be restricted to people sharing this particular protected characteristic.

And even then, a lot of the time it isn't provided in reality. For example, female only rape support groups for female rape survivors - literally the example given in the legislation of when it would be appropriate to do this - are not in practice provided because rape crisis organisations now regard this as "transphobic".

In this situation the students concerned do not share a protected characteristic and it is not legitimate or proportionate to restrict membership of a sports club on this basis.

I can actually think of quite a few situations where this could be problematic.

For example:

Alex is a new student at the school and doesn't have any friends yet. Alex would like to play this sport (perhaps they already played this sport at their previous school) and make some new friends. Alex cannot go along to this club with a friend who is LGBTQ+ because Alex does not have any friends yet. Alex is worried that attending this club would mark them out as being LGBTQ+ when they do not want to be labelled in this way because in Alex's old school some children were bullied for being LGBTQ+ and Alex has moved school to escape from bullying. Alex feels unable to attend.

Another example:

Taylor is same sex attracted but is not yet ready to tell anyone. Taylor's parent is a teacher at the school. Taylor would like to get to know some LGBTQ+ students but they are all in this special club and not in other, general clubs. Even though the club is supposed to be for "allies" as well as LGBTQ+ students, in reality every child who attends it is either same sex attracted or has a non standard gender identity. Taylor knows it will be impossible to attend this club without their parent being aware of it and asking questions about Taylor's sexuality and gender identity. Taylor feels unable to attend.

Another example:

Jo's parents are very religious and do not agree with homosexuality or that people should be allowed to transition. Jo's parents have already had various disagreements with the school regarding the content of PHSE lessons and Jo knows that if there are any more issues their parents might pull Jo out of school and send them to a private faith school instead. Jo's father has, on more than one occasion, physically disciplined Jo at home for what he sees as behaviour not in keeping with the family's faith. Jo finds it very difficult to socialise with their friends out of school for this reason. This year, half Jo's friendship group have started identifying as non binary and they have all decided to join this club together. Jo goes along to the club but is absolutely terrified of their parents finding out that they are a member of an LGBTQ+ club.

Y ‘special rainbow children’ is homophobic.

Equality rules make clear it’s fine to offer services etc for specific groups. Eg ethnicity, sex, LGBT.

Equal so not always mean identical. And a previous poster was correct, this is all coming across as a bit entitled.

What you seem to fail to recognise is that many LGBTQ kids face exclusion after exclusion every single day of their lives. In all the small moments where they are treated differently by their peers and adults for not confirming to expectations.

The OP of this thread used 'special rainbow children' to other them, and the OP has plenty of support on this thread, indicating that this pejorative attitude is somewhat mainstream.

Given that this exists I think it's ok that a few attempts are made to try to build confidence and engagement, and it probably doesn't help to have kids that for eg. insist it is their right to misgender other kids attending.

@SirChenjins so do you think religiously conservative children should be able to join lgbt clubs then complain about activities and discussions that centre homosexuality?

Your child will just have to learn that, whilst they have the right to their beliefs (and thank god the right to be gc is now legally recognised) other people are also allowed places and spaces where their beliefs hold sway.

@MillicentTrilbyHiggins its not the only space, the school has plenty of sports clubs. That it's the only club for this sport is also fine, schools are allowed to make different offers to different groups of students as long as things are equal overall.

I mean really these arguments are just a bit unthinking. LGBTQ kids are often a bit isolated, out of the main crowd and can struggle with friendships and fitting in.

It's like people here can't remember their school days when the kids that were a little different, didn't fit into mainstream expectations were often on the periphery of things. Knowing that they can take along a friend for support probably makes the difference to a lot of these kids being able to attend. It is very likely the teachers have their homework and spoken carefully with kids to find out what might make a difference for them feeling confident to participate, and bringing a friend along was identified.

If people want to reason that to death and exploit or attempt to destroy what is a well meaning effort to engage and build confidence of isolated and vulnerable children...well, what can I say.