Billy Bragg

That’s a bit of a weird leap to take!

Obviously, there will be instances which are pretty out of the ordinary like this, and in some cases perhaps extra safeguarding is needed.

It should be possible to create a society that is welcoming and inclusive while at the same time introducing safeguards where they’re actually needed.

I’m sure BB means well, but his USP is as a campaigner. He’s a wealthy man these days apparently (reported net wealth £5m). He made it himself, but he can hardly campaign on a “f@ck the rich” basis any more with any credibility. I suspect this is behind his move to identity politics and Scottish etc independence.

He is entitled to his opinion, but having no skin in the game it is worth less than women’s opinions on this issue.

yes, we should be kind and tolerant to different ways of living, but to say there is no clash with women’s rights is to lie, or be wilfully underinformed.

should women prisoners have to share cells and showers with male bodied people - no

should women have to compete in their sports against male bodied people - no

should women be forced to have male bodied people present while they are being intimately searched or while they are discussing their rape - no

should women be dismissed as genital fetishists because as lesbians they don’t want to date male bodied transbians - no.

You have no skin in this game Billy Bragg. It makes you feel righteous but you personally give up nothing. Would you give away disabled rights or black people’s hard fought rights? I don’t think so.

That would be entirely appropriate if the person without a penis was a person who used to have a penis.

So why do you think that an employee (human with penis) should be required to strip search a human without a penis?

Of course men Like Bragg are entitled to their views. But they are not entitled to tell women how we should give our rights away to other men.

Women's rights are not men's to give away.

I may have missed this but why is Robin Ince a misogynist?

But this happens all the time. Bands pull out and get replaced Yes of course it is disappointing if you were looking forward to that particular band I would much prefer to see the Proclaimers than Billy Brag but there will be other stages so just go and see something else. I can't get passed the irony of this thread wanting to shut him down. Why is his view not as equally important as those on this thread?

All are entitled to their view, all the views are valid on both sides he's a performer. I remember seeing stiff little fingers. , their lyrics and views support the IRA my uncle was severely injured by the IRA I actually enjoyed their performance and have seen them several times since. I can get by their views and take it for what it is I found it interesting listening to a different perspective that I didn't agree with. I'm bot suggesting that posters go and see something they aren't comfortable with but blimey just go to another stage

The lyrics from the Grace Petrie song you are referring to, Black Tie

”All our progress, I wonder what it’s for, when I dared to utter that trans lives matter and all I got was a TERF war”

In Grace’s own words
”The point of the song is the only clothes and genitals that are your business are yours, and f** transphobia”

believe in being kind and accepting of people from different backgrounds.

Well I believe in being kind and accepting of people from different backgrounds.

But I also think it's a moral failing if you aren't also applying other moral principles when you make judgements about things.

I also worry that people that say "be kind" on trans issues could be giving in to social pressure and conformity, whether they realise it or not.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_foundations_theory

It might be worth you taking a look at a Transwidows threads on this very site. There are at least five of them.

Read a few posts. You'll see that 'different backgrounds' doesn't really apply as a characteristic. For many, if not most, it's the same backgrounds as anyone else.

How on Earth can you know by standing in a crowd that the people around you have ‘no idea of politics’?

If you’re so disparaging of ‘the folkies’ and don’t like all the trad stuff, why are you even there?

A lot of people who go to these festivals, like myself, believe in being kind and accepting of people from different backgrounds. I am not at all surprised that Billy Bragg and Grace Petrie would stand up for trans rights and that the crowd would cheer. Some of us have empathy for people who come from different backgrounds from ourselves.

Sure he has the right to his opinions, but when you are voicing whatever the fashionable leftie thing is, there is no risk to it.

He isn't going to lose sponsorship. He isn't going to have another festival cancel him. He isn't going to get kicked off Twitter. He doesn't actually have to properly defend his views in debate.

I think the tendency on the left, is that they think they get to define what counts as "hate speech", and then well they are just holding you "accountable" for your "hateful speech" when they try to cancel you.

I'll go back to my childcare, cleaning & cooking (the 3c's because the 3r's are beyond me-and incorrect anyway) and my cute,fluffy kittens (which I'm training to take over the world bwahahaha).

This! Woman, know your place!

The audience for folk music and folk festivals is still mostly the same people who got into folk music in the 60s and 70s. They were young then and they're now pensioners. The 60s folk revival was very left-wing and many people who grew up with it retain that outlook at some level. I would bet the Guardian outsells other papers at folk festivals by a large margin.

I doubt it says anything about the political situation in Shrewsbury -- most of the audience will have travelled to be there.

It's such as shame because I adored him in the 80s when I was a teenager but he's an absolute prick these days.

I was listening to The Saturday Boy the other week and thought Urgh, how did I miss this - even back then he was at it.

He is at Moseley folk festival in Birmingham next weekend too. He replaced The Proclaimers who had to pull out.
Robin Ince is there too who has also shown himself to be a huge misogynist.
My husband was thinking of going but isn’t now.

He was on as the support act for Paul Heaton at Bridlington Spa last December. He did exactly the same then. I left to go to the bar until Paul came on.

Being as it was in Shrewsbury, Shropshire, an area that is deeply conservative and voted to leave the EU I think the crowds response is interesting. It is indicative that whilst the Tories are busy chasing the red wall vote they may well be haemoraging votes in their traditional seats. Perhaps the MP for Riyadh and Moscow will start getting worried for his future.

His wife's name is Juliet.

Oh yes, Billy Bragg has form - it’s all over Twitter. DH and I like/follow a couple of bands on the folk scene and would have to agree that Folkies are an odd bunch…and that’s speaking as a pair of metalheads.😂

"Total champagne socialist misogynist twat". While I'll agree he is being mysogynistic and a twat he grew up in East London and his socialism is rooted in his background. "Champagne socialist" is not really appropriate.

He once said “There’s not much ideology in politics any more, and what COVID has done is highlight that the real struggle in society is between individual freedom and the concept of the greater good,” he says. Someone should remind him that the "greater good" means preserving rights for females.

Wonder what his wife, Judith, thinks of this. She should understand the need for safe spaces. for women.