Page 3 | Girls missing out again

FedUpOfAllThisBollocks · 2023-08-24T07:40:35+00:00

DD applied for a Head Girl position at the end of term and all candidates were emailed wi5h the results a few nights ago. 2 boys appointed as Head Boys, out of the girl candidates, 4 were chosen as prefects. Apparently, a pupil complained that the Head Boy Head Girl label was discriminatory against pupils who didn't identify as such. But, it's the girls who miss out yet again, isn't it. DD's Instagram group is filled with messages of "see, boys are superior" and the old shit starts up again. Fed up of all this shit affecting our daughters. Out of the candidates that were female were some pretty outstanding characters so I have absolutely idea why this decision has been allowed. Apparently, it was a student vote but moderated by staff. DD is in a big standard mixed comprehensive school in a bog standard type town. Any advice before I tackle this?

arethereanyleftatall · 24/08/2023 11:57

Maddy70 · 24/08/2023 11:22

I most schools they are called head students now. The vest students no matter what sex get the title. Seems sensible to me

Oh my goodness, and another one. Zero understanding of male privilege. Let me guess - under 40 and have boys?

ErrolTheDragon · 24/08/2023 11:55

But overall the students voted on who they thought were the strongest candidates, so sex of the students is irrelevant

Naive or ignorant about the whole phenomenon of sexism?
Sex is very rarely 'irrelevant' in this sort of thing.

arethereanyleftatall · 24/08/2023 11:53

RoyalGala · 24/08/2023 10:15

If it was a student vote, how is this an issue with the school. It’s always been the same at schools, students make the decisions with regards to prefects and head boy/girl. You’re creating issues where there isn’t one, you can’t influence the voting of the individual students.

This comment shows a deep lack of understanding of the patriarchy and privilege

sashagabadon · 24/08/2023 11:48

If it was two girls chosen then the boys should also complain their sex is not represented. I would complain as a mother in this situation too!

Justme56 · 24/08/2023 11:45

Why shouldn’t it be divided by sex? What is wrong with that criteria? I bet it’s separated by age as in the year 7s aren’t given the opportunity to represent the school. Saying that if it was 2 girls who were saying that boys were inferior I would be just as disappointed. Imagine if the comments were based on race?

Original poster

FedUpOfAllThisBollocks · 24/08/2023 11:45

I need to amend something - DD has told me that it's only the ONE Head Boy that's indulging in this banter nonsense. The other lad is equally baffled why there 2 boys.

Gathering screenshots now. X

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Original poster

FedUpOfAllThisBollocks · 24/08/2023 11:41

ErrolTheDragon · 24/08/2023 10:27

Apparently, a pupil complained that the Head Boy Head Girl label was discriminatory against pupils who didn't identify as such.

So... they just need to make it 'head pupil' (female) and 'head pupil' (male). That's fully inclusive, accurate and fair. If sixth formers don't understand what the words female and male mean and that they're immutable, then they need some remedial biology lessons.

I agree.

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Original poster

FedUpOfAllThisBollocks · 24/08/2023 11:40

RoyalGala · 24/08/2023 10:15

If it was a student vote, how is this an issue with the school. It’s always been the same at schools, students make the decisions with regards to prefects and head boy/girl. You’re creating issues where there isn’t one, you can’t influence the voting of the individual students.

Not in all schools.
Some schools interview candidates and have 1 teacher rep, 1 parent, the caretaker, someone from admin and one SLT on the panel.

If it's down to popularity, then in my local school, god knows who's get it!

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CruCru · 24/08/2023 11:38

Codlingmoths · 24/08/2023 09:25

Tell them you are sure they are expecting this so it won’t be a surprise that the parents and student s are communicating to the wider community that the school doesn’t support its girls, doesn’t feel the need to have girls represented at key levels , thinks the school captain positions are best held by all boys. say the optics are very clear and you’re going to put in a complaint of course but can’t not mention it, although you assume it’s a deliberate decision to treat girls as second class citizens. That if you had your time again you would send dd somewhere else and many other parents see this toxic masculinity for what it is too.

Yeah, I like this

Original poster

FedUpOfAllThisBollocks · 24/08/2023 11:38

anotherside · 24/08/2023 10:00

I can’t take this Head Boy/Girl thing seriously at all. I think it’s a terrible way to socialise kids. We should be educating kids out of this mindset of some people are better/more important than others, not educating them into it. 100 kids get to feel inferior all so that three of four kids and their parents can get a nice ego boost, and the school gets to pretend it’s a little Eton.

I disagree for a few reasons but as far as this school is concerned, they really do gain valuable skills and make a difference to their peers.

They work with smaller, younger groups. The prefects and the Head pupils are assigned nurture groups and the feedback from parents over the years has been overwhelmingly positive. They're all in charge of different 'houses' so competitions like sports day are super inclusive and supportive.

It's also excellent for uni applications for those that put themselves forward. It's worked so well in previous years so that adds to my bafflement this year.

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RudsyFarmer · 24/08/2023 11:33

Sounds like a popularity contest to me. Which I hate. I wish the staff would just decide based on their criteria (hopefully kindness and respect over academics).

Original poster

FedUpOfAllThisBollocks · 24/08/2023 11:31

Mummy08m · 24/08/2023 09:22

(I may be biased because I have an extremely low opinion of Assistant Heads, who I'm sure will be behind this. When I first started teaching, the role barely existed anywhere and now schools are overrun with them and they cause so much damage with their spurious politically-driven initiatives and innovations. Rant over)

I quite agree!

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RoyalGala · 24/08/2023 11:31

GingerIsBest · 24/08/2023 11:23

But it NEVER IS two girls. Statistically, if there are votes for both male and female candidates, the male candidate has a much higher chance of winning. This is why women's only lists exist.

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Where is it never two girls? That hasn’t been the case at DD school, two girl prefects were selected in her class. What makes you assume the male has a higher chance of winning?

TeenDivided · 24/08/2023 11:23

RoyalGala · 24/08/2023 11:21

But overall the students voted on who they thought were the strongest candidates, so sex of the students is irrelevant, if this happened to be both girls, would there also be the same disappointment?

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I think yes there would be discontent.
Girls and boys both need to see their sex represented in the 'top' jobs in school.

GingerIsBest · 24/08/2023 11:23

RoyalGala · 24/08/2023 11:21

But overall the students voted on who they thought were the strongest candidates, so sex of the students is irrelevant, if this happened to be both girls, would there also be the same disappointment?

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But it NEVER IS two girls. Statistically, if there are votes for both male and female candidates, the male candidate has a much higher chance of winning. This is why women's only lists exist.

Maddy70 · 24/08/2023 11:22

I most schools they are called head students now. The vest students no matter what sex get the title. Seems sensible to me

Brefugee · 24/08/2023 11:21

FedUpOfAllThisBollocks · 24/08/2023 09:00

I'm not sure how they're going to word the titles, but in years gone by, it's always been Head Girl and Head Boy. One girl a few years back objected to the gendered label and asked for a 'Head Student' badge but both sexes have always been represented in the choice in years gone by.

DD's messages are full of smug boys 'just having banter' that girls are inferior.

Ffs.

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Hopefully the girl who wanted it de-gendered has left. But that's what "de gendering" brings so often. Men as far as the eye can see

RoyalGala · 24/08/2023 11:21

TeenDivided · 24/08/2023 10:19

The school could set it up as vote for one boy candidate and one girl candidate. 2 posts, 2 separate elections. It is very much an issue with the school.

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But overall the students voted on who they thought were the strongest candidates, so sex of the students is irrelevant, if this happened to be both girls, would there also be the same disappointment?

GingerIsBest · 24/08/2023 11:17

Absolutely screen shot these messages. It's outrageous and demonstrates that these boys are 100% not capable of representing the girls or making them trust them.

It's also a sad sad indictment of our society - that boys like this still got MORe votes (one assumes from both girls and boys).

ErrolTheDragon · 24/08/2023 11:14

OP surely this banter should disqualify them? They clearly have no intention of representing all students fairly if they start out like this.

Quite so. They've shown they're not remotely 'superior'.

ThreeLocusts · 24/08/2023 11:10

FedUpOfAllThisBollocks · 24/08/2023 09:22

As for merit, much of the "inferiority banter' is coming from the bloody Head Boys.

OP surely this banter should disqualify them? They clearly have no intention of representing all students fairly if they start out like this.

ilovemydogmore · 24/08/2023 11:03

anotherside · 24/08/2023 10:00

I can’t take this Head Boy/Girl thing seriously at all. I think it’s a terrible way to socialise kids. We should be educating kids out of this mindset of some people are better/more important than others, not educating them into it. 100 kids get to feel inferior all so that three of four kids and their parents can get a nice ego boost, and the school gets to pretend it’s a little Eton.

It teaches them about leadership and the value of consistent effort, kindness, trustworthiness. We need to spend more time reassuring children that they can't win every time and to not give up, and time educating those that are not ever going to get those positions that it's ok and not everyone is suited for that and success doesn't always mean a position of power.

It would be much better balanced if it went back to a single 'head student' IMO.

I'd definitely be sending screen shots of the chat to the head, even if you blur out the names. Not about getting people in trouble (if your daughter is nervous to) but just to show the consequence and seriousness of it.

ZeldaFighter · 24/08/2023 11:02

Yes, I also think you should complain to the school. I would also get your DD to let the other girls know what you are doing so and why.

I can't understand what the school's reasoning is - surely they can see that they have insulted and diminished their female pupils, in the eyes of their peers and younger pupils?

It's almost funny - we don't want to be [whatever not saying boy and girl is meant to be - inclusive?]....by removing the opportunity from girls full stop.

At my DCs school, the Head Boy and Head Girl both gave a speech at the school Open Day for the new intake of year 7s. Both students were articulate, confident and very impressive - it gave them a public speaking opportunity and a chance to shine and develop. Worth having for both boys and girls.

spitefulandbadgrammar · 24/08/2023 10:58

titchy · 24/08/2023 09:34

Screenshot those SM comments. They will want evidence. This is toxic masculinity being demonstrated and the school has facilitated it. They should be ashamed.

Arguably the Head Boys, if they’re posting and sharing these messages, should be stripped of their titles – when I was a prefect in the dark ages before internet there was a code of conduct, surely half the point of a head/prefect system is those students set the standard.

GingerIsBest · 24/08/2023 10:55

Phos · 24/08/2023 09:29

I suppose it’s impossible that the boys just had better applications and gained more votes then?!

Perhaps the school have decided on two Head Pupils rather than HAVING to choose one of each gender? My old school I noticed on a recent visit does have a head boy and girl at the moment but sure are referred to as Head Pupils or something similar.

Statistically, if sex is removed as a criteria, males consistently tend to win, even when they are, by any objective assessment, the lesser candidate. This is why women's only short lists exist. I hate them, but also think they are clearly necessary. There are a million examples in politics and business.

OP - I think you should point out to the school that representation matters and that choosing to have two heads, and allowing them both to be boys, is massively disadvantaging the girls and removing their voices.

But be prepared to be told you're being ridiculous. Our high school has both but it's always the boy FIRST. On everything. And it drives me mad. But I'm consistently told I'm being ridiculous.