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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Update from Jo Phoenix

293 replies

Imnobody4 · 18/08/2023 17:45

Sorry can't find the previous thread. I thought someone might like to attend. 18 witnesses!! Bet that's just a tactic to intimidate.

https://twitter.com/JoPhoenix1/status/1692558010323702045?t=O8s-xIF3iu564FVwyaYEhg&s=19

NEWSFLASH

45 days to go.

I received news this week that the venue for my hearing has changed. It is now at Watford Tribunal Centre, 2nd floor, Radius House, 51 Clarendon Road, Watford. It will be in an open court (i.e. members of the public are allowed to attend). The dates remain the same.

The case starts on 2nd October with reading and preliminary issues. Evidence-giving starts on 3rd October. At present, I still do not know the exact number of witnesses the OU is calling. In the preliminary case hearing, the OU's representative claimed that they would like to call 18. We are scheduled to exchange witness statements at the end of next week (25th August) and it is then that I will know if all of those 18 witnesses are, indeed, being called to give evidence.

https://twitter.com/JoPhoenix1/status/1692558010323702045?s=19&t=O8s-xIF3iu564FVwyaYEhg

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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BezMills · 25/01/2024 07:50

lol it reminds me of the folk who will announce they are having or have just done a FB clearout. Oh-kay.

WarriorN · 24/01/2024 10:20

Blocking spree I believe

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 23/01/2024 22:40

ArabeIIaKarenScott · 23/01/2024 19:32

Women's Hour interviewed a woman who had been discriminated against, victimised, and harassed, and unfairly dismissed. In the interview she described a breakdown, precipitated by her treatment, and compared the experience of the tribunal to taking her rapists to court as a teenager. It moved many listeners to tears.

And Zoe Williams complains about 'GCs', suggests this woman was 'attacking trans people', and then boasts that she made the complaint in order to do a 'timeline cleanse'.

What a small minded, callous, and nasty human being.

What on earth is a timeline cleanse?

JanesLittleGirl · 23/01/2024 20:32

I am in absolute awe of Jo Phoenix. I think that I'm pretty tough but faced with the level of bullying and harassment that she faced, together with her other challenges, I would have folded.

ArabeIIaKarenScott · 23/01/2024 19:32

Women's Hour interviewed a woman who had been discriminated against, victimised, and harassed, and unfairly dismissed. In the interview she described a breakdown, precipitated by her treatment, and compared the experience of the tribunal to taking her rapists to court as a teenager. It moved many listeners to tears.

And Zoe Williams complains about 'GCs', suggests this woman was 'attacking trans people', and then boasts that she made the complaint in order to do a 'timeline cleanse'.

What a small minded, callous, and nasty human being.

PronounssheRa · 23/01/2024 16:55

She is doing the exact same thing the OU staff were doing, making spurious claims about the GC position. No where in that interview were trans people attacked but it does stop her going there.

The guardian are probably only a couple of tantrums or tweets away from an ET themselves.

Update from Jo Phoenix
DerekFaker · 23/01/2024 16:43

Is Zoe Williams on glue?

Update from Jo Phoenix
Oblomov23 · 23/01/2024 14:32

Clearly OU had no idea whatsoever how we all see this case, their conduct. How can they be so unaware?

Forester1 · 23/01/2024 14:30

Excellent! And reading the judgement - or at least part of it - has made me realise why there’s such a delay between the tribunal and the judgement.

RethinkingLife · 23/01/2024 12:00

That was a lovely Crowd Justice note that JP sent out.

Update on Harassed, silenced & compared to a racist for my gender critical views

I will write a longer piece in a few days - once my feet hit the ground. But for now, this email is to say thank you to everyone. Thank you for the messages of support, the donations, for your appearance if you came to court, and for you solid belief in the case. We got there. The judgement is very good. I will try to summarise it in the week. But for now, and from what I can tell, it is being covered in most of the daily newspapers.

So thank you. You enabled this to happen.

Jo

StephanieSuperpowers · 23/01/2024 10:22

I'll bet they're disappointed. Nobody wants to join in a righteous rooting out of evil to find out that everyone else (and the law) thinks they've done a witch hunt and they just look like pathetic, incompetent bullies. They were supposed to be heroes of justice! How did that happen?

DerekFaker · 23/01/2024 10:22

And here's some irony for you:

Update from Jo Phoenix
DerekFaker · 23/01/2024 10:19

The OU's Vice Chancellor is disappointed with the verdict

https://twitter.com/MForstater/status/1749723012419453389?t=ir0utt2wzMxG3zO2B_cVKQ&s=19

Update from Jo Phoenix
RethinkingLife · 23/01/2024 09:51

Predictable class from the excellent Peter Daly.

Update from Jo Phoenix
teawamutu · 23/01/2024 09:16

SupportRobin · 23/01/2024 09:12

Ooh, finally a case that they can't ignore?

Imagine if she managed to shoehorn in a mention of the Edinburgh case...

SupportRobin · 23/01/2024 09:12

nauticant · 23/01/2024 09:03

Jo Phoenix will be on Woman's Hour this morning. Let's hope Emma Barnett is the interviewer.

Ooh, finally a case that they can't ignore?

nauticant · 23/01/2024 09:03

Jo Phoenix will be on Woman's Hour this morning. Let's hope Emma Barnett is the interviewer.

IcakethereforeIam · 23/01/2024 09:01

Could that thread be sent to that guy who's been appointed as a free speech tsar recently? His name escapes me, but he hosted Kathleen Stock at his university when that ridiculous tra glued herself to the floor.

Thank you for reproducing it.

DerekFaker · 23/01/2024 08:54

That thread in full for those who don't do twitter. The numbering is a bit wrong, but I have copied each tweet in order

I was studying with @OpenUniversity when Jo was being harassed. In fact I contacted her to ask for help as students were also being scared in to silence over any discussion about the significance of sex in their studies. 1/

We'd been told we could not discuss why the MOU (signed by NHS, Counselling bodies & the sodding Chief Medical Officer) to affirm gender identities was ethical, when some of the most vulnerable people were being dragged into the cult. Staff were scared. 2/

We were given specific categories on which to write, told we must only use Gender & def not Sex, despite need to research prostitution, pornography & why women seem to end up victims of medical practices that deform their bodies & those of their babies (thalidomide, vaginal 3/

mesh & silicon implants) without anyone held to account. A couple of us tentatively expressed concerns about being penalised for daring to point out the sex of victims of crimes was actually a Very Important Thing Indeed. We were told on the quiet by tutors to toe the line 4/

or we'd be marked down. I was actually asked by my (male) tutor if I genuinely thought there was a difference between the impact on lives of males & females. He went silent when I sent a long list of ways in which female lives were directly & negatively impacted by their sex 4/

We were told on OU forums by the head of the course that language rules were applied for a reason & we must comply, conveniently forgetting to mention that as a #Stonewall champion the OU were rated on their ability to erase sex & boost gender in their curriculum. 5/

When I submitted FOIs (under a false name not to risk my degree) about how their unlawful EDI policies were established @OpenUniversity refused to answer, citing a clause no-one has heard used before, claiming I was part of a campaign targeting them (I was not). I am sure 5/

they would have been advised by #Stonewall on how to hide, how to remain opaque, how to avoid the law (until the magnificent Jo called their bluff). I had planned to continue postgrad study but strangely my emails asking about sex-based research topics remained unanswered 6/

and no supervisors offered a space to this gender critical student that had done quite well in her degree. I'm glad I didn't pursue the research because if an iron-cored powerhouse like Jo was bullied unbearably, I stood no chance as a lowly student. 7/

I'm appalled that a wonderful institution like @OpenUniversity embraces an ideology that limits the ability of staff & students to fully engage on topics, to send students into the world with a shrunken vocab & undeveloped ability to consider significance of sex on human lives 8/

While you may think that there will be some courses that will remain unaffected, the OU policies have been rewritten to minimise sex. I took part in the (relentless) consultation process, & memorably one on why there were less female OU students in STEM. 9/

The consultation organisers insisted on referring to gender, while I insisted on referring to sex. Other students called me transphobic for daring to suggest it mattered if you wanted to really understand & fix the imbalance. But I guess if you can get males to identify as 10/

females the imbalance will eventually disappear, problem solved & @OpenUniversity appears inclusive & diverse, while stacking STEM courses with more men. 11/

I'm so please Jo won her case as she (and another troublesome OU employee) gave me a lot of strength to keep fighting while studying. Hopefully OU can be saved, or at least made to comply with the law in time, & students can return to questioning, challenging & thinking freely.

IamRoyFuckingKent · 23/01/2024 08:51

Fantastic news, well done Jo and Ben <swoon swoon>

DerekFaker · 23/01/2024 08:47

Thread from someone who studied with the OU at the time. They are totally and utterly captured.

https://twitter.com/Obsolesence/status/1749514023446483042?t=q40RhJuT5aW6PFMo1VE54Q&s=19

https://twitter.com/Obsolesence/status/1749514023446483042?s=19&t=q40RhJuT5aW6PFMo1VE54Q

Puddlelane123 · 23/01/2024 07:06

Best news ever to wake up to!!!

TeenDivided · 23/01/2024 06:58

I really hope the main protagonists are made to apologise unreservedly on twitter making it clear jo has every right to hold the views she does and they are not transphobic.
Plus a letter on ou website sent to all students.