Cheryl Hole on LGBTQ representation

To the poster that suggested that there was " no such thing as men's and women's clothes" - what is it then that you think men are expected to do to show that they have " lived as a woman for two years" when applying for a GRC? Wearing " women's clothes" is certainly one of them.

I love @LoobiJee 's idea of getting the BBC to explain. Then we can ask them if they expect all the public to know that? What about the public who don't already know? What about people who know it might have more than one meaning, one for the cool girls and one for everyone else, and don't what to hazard a guess at which one the artiste means?

Perhaps the Beeb needs to spell it out to everyone so we all know not to be offended. A public information campaign!

Cheryl Hole first featured on Ru Pauls' Drag race as far as I'm aware? at about the same timne as 'Baga Chipz' - which was a depiction of a cheap working class 'slag' with disgusting smelling genitalia.

The hole is clearly a euphemism for the female sexual organ.

Most drag names involve over-blown depictions of female steroptypes or bodily parts/functions.

I've recently come across 'Violet Period Pain' and 'Anna Bortion' on fly-posting in my city

Which is exactly what I said in my post. I just believe we should be clear what we're arguing against.

😂😂

Also no such thing as women's or men's clothes.

I've seen this opinion a lot, but I disagree. Women's clothes are designed for women's bodies - our shape and skeletal proportions and overall greater degree of plumpness. Women's trousers are cut differently to men's. Roomier through the hips and thighs and no need for the extra material at the front. Shorter legs.
Men's clothes can be "skirts" or "dresses" - but they are versions designed for men's shape and proportions and different areas of adiposity. Togas, tunics, kilts. Sarongs, maybe. All "dresses" and "skirts" for men. There are plenty of "comfortable" or non-standard male garb options. If they choose women's clothes, it's for a reason. And it's not the fit.

Obviously there is some overlap in shape, proportions, etc and a tall, lean swimmer type of woman would look great in men's trousers, for example. But basically a dressmaker's model for a man is different to one for a woman.

“So you see, Little Susie, it’s just a joke about anal sex, that’s all. What’s that? It’s sex up the bum, dear.”

Feel free to send it to them @Takethefrickinhintalready

I think clarity is important when criticising this, is all.

Well aware of that. I'm just seeing people complain that the 'hole' refers to women, rather than... forgive me, but anus.

I'm pretty damn GC but "Hole" is referring to, I believe, the way in some which gay men choose to have sex, rather than anything to do with women.

Also no such thing as women's or men's clothes.

However - this style of drag is absolutely not for children. We can all agree on that.

"The full BBC complaints process consists of three stages -Stage 1a, 1b and 2. If you are unhappy with the response from the BBC at each of stage 1a and 1b, you can ask the BBC to look at it again. Stage 2 is the final stage, where you can complain to the BBC Executive Complaints Unit, the ECU. You should wait to see if you are happy with the BBC ECU’s final response before making a complaint to Ofcom."

Don't forget that Ofcom is the statutory regulatory body that oversees the BBC.
https://www.ofcom.org.uk/tv-radio-and-on-demand/advice-for-consumers/how-ofcom-deals-with-bbc-complaints

"The BBC is responsible for the editorial standards of its online material, under the BBC Charter and Agreement set by Government and Parliament.
You should make any complaint about online material to the BBC first. But if you are not satisfied with how your complaint has been resolved by the BBC, you can seek an independent opinion on it from Ofcom.
We can consider your complaint, and the BBC’s response to it, if it is about content on the BBC website and apps. This includes written text, images, video and audio content. It does not include social media, Bitesize, BBC material on third-party websites and World Service content."

And people have a fear of clowns , I'd say that seeing that picture is much worse !

PS I am sure the name doesn't represent how most LGBTQ+ people feel about women (though a minority might) but the BBC need to be careful about how they represent "LGBTQ+ people" and their attitudes to the public. The BBC needs to take a lead on what's acceptable and Celebrity MasterChef isn't the place to push the envelope towards sexual insults. Innuendo yes, insults, no. If the performer doesn't know the different the BBC should.

I wonder who the 'right people' at the BBC are...

You could point out that the "right people" are capable of an apology and you're looking forward to it.

'In this instance we won’t be investigating the issue in more detail but we would like to assure you that we value your feedback and have shared it with the right people at the BBC.'

I wonder who the 'right people' at the BBC are...

Looking at the BBC article, a representation of "LGBTQ+ people" that's somewhere between insensitive to women and on a level with using the n-word for race, breaks the BBC's obligations under the Equality Act not to fuel conflict between different groups.

Cheryl Cole doesn't need to complain. If a drag artist is free to turn her name into a hate insult on a popular show then that represents how free "LGBTQ+ people" are to insult all and any women in public. And if it represents how "LGBTQ+ people" really feel about women, well it's not a wonder that transphobia and homophobia are on the rise, is it?

I think the webiste lets you make a follow-up complaint - there's a box to tick if it's new or not.

Perhaps they are taking refuge in the fact that sausages seem to be the height of his culinary achievements, so he won’t be gracing our screens any further

‘However, Cheryl's ambitious martini pudding backfired after the passionfruit coulis failed to set, leaving her dessert to become curdled.
"I'm ready for a cry in the corner. I never want to see a passionfruit martini ever again," she said after presenting the dish. Gregg later admitted the dessert was "a disaster in a glass".’

( There is something approaching innuendo there…)

What I can’t work out is why he ( that’s the right pronoun btw HQ because he is NoT NB or trans) is a celebrity in any real sense. The other contestants were persons of distinction* in some other way than just being ‘famous ‘ for dressing up on another Tv show. It’s s create-your-own -celebrity and then promote it on the BEEB.

Or maybe if I stopped a random passer by and asked if they had heard of CH I might find that I am, unsurprisingly, behind the curve. I’m not going to try it out, though.

Yes, quite 😄

What can she possibly do?

He identifies as a(n) homage to her, so she will be torn apart if she makes a peep of protest. PR disaster for her if she does anything stronger than a graceful silence

I always mentally recall this man's performer name (alongside some other examples) when people claim there isn't a misogynist element to drag. I'm totally shocked to find out he's going to be on Celebrity MasterChef; I had presumed his choice of name would restrict him to tv programmes specifically about drag.

Mary Rose, presumably 😉