Lesbian speed dating event accused of transphobia for not allowing men

The pub are in the same position that Cherry's theatre were, only their case much much weaker because of the way they acted. They have hosted the event for 4 years already! I think just a threat of legal action would mean Stonegate would have to talk to lawyers who would tell them they are legally totally in the wrong. They can't ban lesbians meeting because they are lesbian any more than a Christian fundamentalist pub landlord could.

Which means they would either go for doomed court case & terrible publicity or fold and apologise.

Hopefully Jenny and LGBA go down the legal route. Because if not lesbians in the UK will continue to have to meet in secret like it is 1900 or something.

They really do.

TRAs have nowhere to hide if they start rejecting third spaces and trans supportive events.

It's the same with the Badenoch guidance over loos.

The general public need to see the misogyny at the heart of this ideology, and that women are to be used, or they will be punished.

Jenny Watson with the support of the LGBA has made a compromise offer of putting on a trans/trans-inclusive dating night as well. This has been rejected

TRA really have no idea how badly they come across. Personally I’d rather have poked my eyes are out than try & help these stroppy entitled men but Jenny is clearly a better person than me but as usual TRA prove yet again that it’s not enough for there to also be trans inclusive events as well as women only events, women must have no women only events at all. We are allowed nothing for ourselves.

This is a crowdfunder i would donate to. Lesbians should absolutely have the right to organise as a single sex group, and refusing them service on the basis of them being homosexual is homophobic and is not permitted in law.

It proves though, yet again, it's not about 'but it's because we need access to those kinds of resources too', but about 'thou shalt not tolerate female only provisions to exist'. Even if this political position has everything it needs, three pools at Hampstead, three different choices of rape crisis services gagging to help you, it will not permit female people to escape their control and have anything to meet their needs. And if this means they have nothing, then serve them right for daring to exist without revolving around the wishes and feelings of a male.

It's indefensible, and the general public need to see it plainly.

Jenny Watson with the support of the LGBA has made a compromise offer of putting on a trans/trans-inclusive dating night as well. This has been rejected. I really, really hope she takes legal action now. Sexual orientation discrimination, sex discrimination, restriction of two disadvantaged groups' lawful right to associate, attempts to ruin her business (I assume its a business) by badmouthing her all over the place, defamation. And loads of evidence helpfully provided.

It was an extraordinarily kind offer that she made. Why on earth she should take on a trans dating night as well, I don't know - the males can sort out their own social lives. And it sort of implies that their complaints have merit and she therefore needs to make provision for them, which doesn't sit well with me. But the outright rejection of the suggestion proves what the real motives of the manager and his nasty little WhatsApp group were.

Someone on another thread talked about the fact that some people don't understand the difference between fair and unfair discrimination and think that all discrimination is bad. Same in this case - using the pejorative "exclusionary" as if exclusion is necessarily evil. No, it's not. We don't all belong everywhere. The event is for lesbians.

If it did go to court, it might be a way of establishing in case law that a woman is an adult human female and sex means sex, not gender. Because that is what is at the heart of this - homogenderal vs homosexual.

I do remember it was clearly reported that it was rejection on a 'date'. I cannot remember when that rejection was reported though, I do think it was before the trial.

And News Ltd has a very good paywall so I can never get to read their articles unless a friend takes a physical pic of the article and shares it. They really have the worlds best paywall technology!

I have been very sad about discovering that the ABC is no longer reliable.

Sorry to derail the thread a bit, but I think it’s important context showing that even if they don’t turn up in latex with an erection, allowing TW into lesbian dating events is potentially dangerous. Given rejection is often met with rage, I fear it’s only a matter of time before someone is actually killed, either the rejecting woman or (as in the 7/11 attack) completely random strangers.

I’m also Australian, if the handle didn’t make it obvious 😄 and have been in that 7-11.

The Tinder date element was reported on by some of the local media during the trial, but not beforehand, and the SMH/ABC/Guardian axis of TWAW downplayed it. It was mainly in the Murdoch media. So it’s no surprise if you missed it – the “I went murderous after a lesbian wouldn’t put out with me, and chopped up a couch in anger when another woman I flirted with online turned out to be into men” angle on the story is pretty inconvenient to the gender supremacy narrative. I don’t even remember reading about the US witness at the time, even though she testified on the same day.

Which is why the Buzzfeed story is so interesting – it’s not the outlet you’d expect would write a story that allowed people to read between the lines.

If you either believe yourself that you have become a woman, or believe in the power to compel others to validate your chosen identity as a woman, then one of the ultimate experiences is to be given sex by a female kind of woman who exclusively and only sleeps with other female kinds of women.

Sex with one of them makes it real, it's a huge goal.

The refusal of female kind of women to get with the programme is a denial that a male person has sufficiently become a woman to count in their eyes, hence the rage. The attempts to punish and coerce until they will just get their clothes off and do it, hence the abhorrent incel stuff about women just 'learning to cope' with unwanted sex with a male body as if they were unpaid sex workers or sex toys. The degree of dehumanisation of these goal women is appalling. There is no sense in any of the rhetoric of the woman being a partner, a person, an equal entitled to have feelings, no responsibility towards her pleasure or consent, it's just the right to use her without her fussing and resisting.

This is all about requiring women to validate male people with their bodies.

Whether it's to get your knickers down and pee in the cubicle next to the male person, or to undress for swimming in a communal changing room, or to permit the male person to do an intimate exam or intimate care, or to provide lesbian sex, it is all about requiring women to validate with their bodies.

With rage and punishment for 'gatekeeping' these desired experiences. And it all links into the age old belief that women have no business gatekeeping their bodies from men with sexual needs, hence husbands being able to rape their wives as a marital right if she won't do her duty. It's the entitlement of the bloke who feels you up on the tube, or assaults you in a dark alley because you're walking around in possession of a body he feels he has an entitlement to, and who you are, how you identify, how you feel, if you consent- what's that got to do with it?

And yes. It all starts with a pronoun.

Reading that Polish detransitioners story is also instructive, in terms of homophobia.

Oooh light bulb moment!

yep, it’s very much not a neutral act to behave in any way as if you accept that some men are really women

There's an undercurrent of homophobia running through it like blackpool through a stick of rock, it also seems like the one group of people not to blame for Everything Being Bad is good old Males with Trans Identities.

Yes, it's logically consistent if your logic is "trans women are women". Which is why I don't think calling males women is harmless.

@Ereshkigalangcleg

I was going to make a flippant comment, but then read the entire article. I think there are some implicit premises there that I don't buy, but okay, it was quite interesting to see the viewpoint elaborated pretty coherently.

There's an undercurrent of homophobia running through it like blackpool through a stick of rock, it also seems like the one group of people not to blame for Everything Being Bad is good old Males with Trans Identities.

I honestly couldn’t work out what the first paragraph meant! Are trans guys transmen or guys who are transwomen?

Mind you I am also unsure what transmisogyny is, or cissexist, or sexually existing queer women or a misgendering sexuality frame. It really has become a question of twisting language until it does what you want it too and then shouting down other people who don’t understand what you are talking about, this is why we need to fight back and retain language, especially the language that defines us as women, oops, sorry those of us identified as women by the gender coercively assigned to us at birth.

And btw no one “deserves” to have sex with someone just because they want to, the other person has autonomy too.

The thing is that regardless of what sex you are, being a boundary pushing weirdo is going to be a massive turn off for most people too

so I think this guy faces a number of hurdles

but step one might be understanding what sex he is and only respectfully making advances to people who are attracted to members of that sex

basically, men: leave lesbians alone.

Its so hypocritical.
Presumably they want to date women as they are heterosexual.
But can't respect the fact that other people are homosexual.

Here's another male whining about it from 2012, and blaming "trans men" for giving the impression that lesbians could consider them part of their dating pool rather than affirming that they should only be interested in MTF trans people:

https://feministing.com/2012/06/28/enough-with-i-date-women-and-trans-men/

The problem isn’t one sided: trans guys owe it to themselves to not accept a misgendering sexuality frame just because it makes it easier to get laid, but that shit’s complicated in a cissexist world. It’s unfair to place all the responsibility for fixing this problem at the feet of the people who’s identities are being undermined. I want to encourage trans guys to stand up for what they deserve, but a lot of the responsibility for fixing this shit belongs to the people doing the undermining.

I do put a little more responsibility on trans men for letting this frame push their trans sisters out. This approach to sexuality totally erases trans women by excluding us from the group of sexually existing queer women. Yes, it’s also incredibly undermining of trans women’s identities by moving us out of the category “women” when it comes to sexuality. Ultimately, this frame goes back to the gender coercively assigned at birth for trans women as well. It’s a way for transmisogyny to advance unchecked, because trans women totally drop out of the conversation.

Lost my post after typing it a
out.

I realise now that I probably read that it was a ‘tinder’ date and that they were rejected and didn’t think more about it. I would have read abc and Amy smh and the police probably hadn’t contacted the women in the USA at that time.

Thanks for that link. That has given more clarity.

The anger of men when women say no about sexual availability. Even saying no to other men must not be tolerated.

Jenny is absolutely right: the 'hate group' is not the women wanting to be left in peace and quiet. It's the ones shouting abuse and trying to control them and prevent their being allowed to say no to men wanting sex.

Awful. 😢

I remember the original 'cotton ceiling' article, which is very hard to find these days as tracks are covered. It was a very interesting insight into the mindset of an adult male transitioner, explaining the frustration of transitioning to find that previously totally uninterested women were now very supportive and kind and willing to sit and chat and share drinks and listen and be very nice. But. They wouldn't go the last step, get their knickers off and DTD.

The transitioner was bewildered and frustrated by this. As I recall, the line in the article went: "they resist the penis!"

Er yeah, they would mate. They're lesbians. But to the transitioner's reading of the situation, all the 'be kind' was cock teasing, leading to anger when they wouldn't follow through.

I have a standing order to LGBA because I want to live in a society where homophobia isn’t a thing. Seeing Kate Barker on that clip reassures me that it’s money well spent

This is a jaw dropping watch

the homophobia is clear and off the charts

I thought the date was with a male person. I remember reading it at the time because I have been in that 7/11 heaps. And was worried who might have been involved.

i must have been wrong.

Thanks for sharing the video @fromorbit - all that self-righteous homophobia!