If you're GC, what should trans people actually do?

It is nuts isn't it!

Heh. Even though you have helpfully explained the scenario twice in different terms, I still cannot compute.

If it is any consolation OP I have had extreme activists yell, some screamed, at me a whole slew of misrepresentations and misinformation. These young people were protesting because they believe the falsehoods. But they cannot listen to anyone who tries to point out that they are yelling complete bollocks at people.

It would be funny if they weren’t so violently intimidating and sometimes violently assaulting people.

Hats off to you, OP. It's not easy to listen to views that challenge those that we already have; especially not if they are at odds with some part of our 'identity' that is important to us.

FWIW there are many trans people who are allies of women and respectful of women's rights and broadly in agreement with the points made here. Some of them have been subject to the most horrible abuse from so-called 'trans allies', including one transwoman who was prosecuted by a woman for transphobia, absurdly (Miranda Yardley). The case was thrown out of court because it was bollocks.

Plenty of lesbians, bisexuals, gay men, and trans people are called 'transphobic' for their beliefs.

And most women that I know who are fighting for women and children's rights would also fight, and in some cases have fought for many years, to ensure that trans people can live their lives free of discrimination and discomfort.

Can I suggest that in between other threads you read this one below :

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me?latest=0

The second half is full of links to studies and to important developments. There is a huge bank of links so it will take some processing as to what you want to read or not.

I think I assumed that people who wanted to restrict trans rights

Thank you OP, for a useful reminder of how the GC view has been framed in public discourse. That 'terfs' want to restrict trans people's rights.

GC feminism is about women's rights. It's not about attacking or taking things from trans people, but about defending and preserving the hard won rights of women. But framing the issue in this way feeds the assumption that GC women are nasty bigots, wanting to stop others from having rights.

So you never ask, 'what rights haven't trans people already got?', because the answer is that trans people have all the same rights as anyone else. What they don't have, is the right to things reserved for categories of people to which they don't belong. What they don't have, is the right to force others to go along with their wishes and beliefs. Just like everyone else in society.

Those controlling the narrative don't want you to ask, because when you do the whole house of cards falls down. Women (usually bright, politically literate, inclusive in the original sense of the word women) haven't en masse decided to become nasty divisive exclusionary bigots. Why would they?

Many of us came here from the same position, having been a strong supporter until we encountered an issue that opened eyes.

I dislike the word 'ally', it's not a war, it's unhelpful phrasing. But I continue to be as strongly emphatic in protecting the rights of trans people to equality under law and freedom from harassment and discrimination as I am for all other groups. I do not intend to stand by while harm happens to anyone. I am equal opportunities in this rather than believing that some worthy groups deserve more at the expense of less worthy humans having less and being less, according to the currently political fad of what makes people 'worthy' and what makes them 'unworthy'. That way madness lies.

And, of course, there are straight men saying they're women, trying to get lesbians to have sex with them. All endorsed by Stonewall.

This'll blow your mind, then.

Heterosexual men are hanging out in gay male bars and on dating apps because young heterosexual girls who identify as men are going there to (attempt to) pick up gay men, so straight blokes are pursuing them, presumably pretending to be gay, to pick them up.

Straight women trying to coerce gay males into sex, being pursued by straight men, pretending to be gay, to get sex from straight women.

That's what happens when you don't base sexual orientation on sex. But sexism.

Get on with thier life and leave others alone to do the same!

Im sorry I was snitty with you earlier in the thread @AmaListening

you wouldn’t believe the amount of times similar threads are started, the OP never returns & then it’s all over twitter & Fb with screenshots

thank you for listening to what we’ve said.

The right of that person to live as themselves, without having to conform to anyone else's definition.

That's the cornerstone of gender critical feminism!

That people not be bound by gender stereotyping in order to conform to society's expectations of what to wear, how to present, what job to do, what roles to fulfil, etc.

Transgenderism undoes all that. Ironically. It says because I think and feel in this way, I must be a woman, because that's how women think.

That's right. The Lord concerned wanted this violent male to inform the House of Lords how they could improve his prison experience.

One wonders what enhancements were suggested? Stop making me rape women in order that I can get surgery??

It's all a part of TQ+ creep. The latest misappropriation is the statement that ' a trans woman is a woman assigned male at birth' total shit. Give them an inch and they take a mile and keep doing it. No such thing as a 'transwoman' , it's a trans identifying MAN. Conceived male, will die male. No access to women's spaces under any circumstances.

Couldn't have just stolen a car or something, could they. Had to be a rape.

Also my exact same thought.

I remember when you were possibly going to have a meeting with them about it Datun

Couldn't have just stolen a car or something, could they. Had to be a rape.

The woman concerned thought she was going to die.

Fucking lauded in the House of Lords.

Absolutely.

I'd also add that other women cannot vote to give up our rights. It won't wash for particular women like Sturgeon to think their biological sex entitles them to speak on all our behalves.

And narcissism.

I believe we should live as we were born - and that acceptance of that is the way to happiness. We are all born with different characteristics be it small, tall, dark or blonde. Sex is the same we are born with it. We can modify what we wear, change the colour of our hair or diet, exercise but we are who we are. More effort should be put into helping people accept their gender/sex rather than the time and cost of changing it.

Thing is they will never be happy. If we gave up and let transwomen have the ladies loos and we had a sign saying (their beloved word for us) “cis” womens toilets then you can bet your arse they would tantrum to be able to use cis toilets.

That's because a lot of it is about control and misogyny.