If you're GC, what should trans people actually do?

People should take responsibility for the things they do, for example, extreme body morphication will cause a person social difficulty and inconvenience. Big facial tattoos will make it harder for you to get public facing roles at work.

The choices that people make which put them in awkward social situations and cause them day to day difficulties, aren’t for other people to fix.

they can do whatever they want... apart from try to warp reality to suit their delusion, and force me, the rest of society and the law to join in.

I wish them the best with their health and happiness.

Trans people should use the single sex facilities of their birth sex. That is literally all people want them to do. They can dress how they like, and act how they like, but they must not use the opposite of their sex facilities.

Ok, so in your ideal world, where would Laverne Cox go to the toilet, if out in public?

as Iong as it's not the women's i don't care

If she were an athlete or wanted to be a competitive sportsperson, how would she go about that - or would she just not?

I Don't care that's up to Laverne but Laverne can't play on the women's teams

Laverne Cox should use the men's toilet and Elliot Page the women's.

Like many people, mainly natal women, pre plan and avoid going to the loo when out and about. Or use unisex. I can sympathise that Laverne wouldn’t feel comfortable in a men’s loo, but womens isn’t appropriate either.

And no to women’s sports, women’s prison etc.

Hear, hear.

A world where homophobia doesn't exist and men are happy to support each other no matter how they choose to dress.

What should those human beings, who feel and identify the way they do, do about every aspect like: names, pronouns, surgery, clothing, relationships, social spaces, work, sports.

Compete in sports and access single sex spaces and toilets according to their biological sex. Surgery, clothing, relationships, names - they can do whatever they like, just like anyone else can. Pronouns- they can ask people to refer to them by their preferred pronouns, but they shouldn't be able to force them to.

For many sports a trans woman doesn’t even have to enter “male”. There is now a new section called “open” that anyone can enter. (So there is Open and Women’s rather than Men’s and Women’s.)

I'd really like to understand what the world looks like for trans people if we carry GC views through to their end points.

There's a photo somewhere, post-transition but before moving to womens sports, of Emily Bridges sharing a podium with three male (and male-presenting) teammates. They have their arms on each others shoulders.

That's the end point I'd like. Where we as a society recognise that sex differences are real and matter, but, within the sex category, people are welcoming of those who dress and present differently.

So I'd like transwomen to use male toilets, changing rooms, etc, AND for men to be broadminded enough that for them to do so is utterly unremarkable. And the same in reverse.

My intention isn't to be provocative

🤔🤔🤔

Why is any of this a problem that women have to solve?

EP looks in need of urgent mental health help.

Transition if it makes them happier.

What would be great from my point of view would be if Laverne Cox would refer to themselves as a trans man (a man who's transitioned) and Elliot Page would refer to themselves as a trans woman (a woman who's transitioned). Then it's really clear what facilities they should use, nobody gets referred to as 'cis', a lot of issues just go away.

Don't worry, I know it won't happen.

Aye, because no woman could possibly concern herself with the needs, wants, privacy, dignity and safety of women - at least, not when male feelings are at stake!

What should trans people do?
To (slightly) misquote JKR:

Dress however you please.
Call yourself whatever you like.
Sleep with any consenting adult who’ll have you.
Live your best life in peace and security.
But stay in the lane of your own sex for single sex services, teams and spaces.

There's a great picture of Laverne and Elliot together, in fact. Their respective biological sexes couldn't be more obvious.

I don’t consider myself hardcore GC here are my views on the list.

names - people can use whatever name they like and in my ideal society anyone of either sex could use a previously gendered name without prejudice.

pronouns - as above I don’t care what people use. I am unwilling though to state mine as I don’t give a shit if people get them wrong and as a female there is evidence that by stating my femaleness I’m more likely to be a victim of subconscious discrimination.

surgery - again personal choice don’t care.

clothing as per my answer for names, I don’t believe clothing should be for men or women so people should be able to wear what they like without it being an identity.

relationships - as long as consensual fine, but with respect that someone who is attracted to men might not be attracted to a transman and vice versa for women as ultimately they are not their new sex.

social spaces - depending on the circumstances welcome with how they want to present, with some exceptions for women’s groups that are about safe space.

work don’t know what you mean

sports. If recreational join in with their identified sex, professional sport needs more safeguards for biological women to ensure they’re not disadvantaged.

There seems to be a really odd idea that women are in any way invested in what people choose to do with their lives.

It's the odd idea that we don't genuinely care about women and girls, we just want to be spiteful to these males presumably because we're jealous of their fabulousness or something.

Also neither Laverne nor Elliot ‘pass’. Very very few people do, females
on testosterone more as it’s a powerful drug.

There’s no ambiguity here, you won’t get anyone falling to the floor wailing OMG I never considered them, I immediately renounce my terfy ways.

This sums it up for me.

Laverne cox should use the male or unisex toilet. They should compete with others of their biological sex if they want to do sport dye yo their physical advantage over women.

There seems to be a really odd idea that women are in any way invested in what people choose to do with their lives.

I don't give the slightest fuck anyone lives their life and what they choose to do, so long as they're harming no one.

All women want is the stuff that we fought for. Women's rights, women's spaces. That's all.

Well anyone can have any name, they can use the pronouns they want as far as I am concerned and I would follow their lead while generally using names and non at all as a more congruent and easier approach, adults can have any surgery medical staff are happy to provide but while I would be pleased if it makes them happier I find cheerleading and euphemisms crass and disrespectful to the complexities of the issue whether thinking about detransitioners, teens and those with cancer related surgeries. In life and work I would expect it to make little difference to anything in most cases but would like them to be accurately recorded as trans men or women and would not expect a woman to be expected to have intimate care - for example- provided by a trans woman. I don’t see the word trans as a pejorative one at all - I am not seeing trans as lesser but it’s different to a woman’s experience just as it’s an experience that community members will have shared experiences with that won’t be part of my experience. Sport should remain sex segregated unless teams are ordinarily mixed. I have supported trans people including ones I disagree with and have a close trans friend whose beliefs match mine very closely. Her partner doesn’t feel the same but we seem to like each other and their relationship is great despite different beliefs. A model for us all!