If you're GC, what should trans people actually do?

Wow

You can't consent on behalf of other women though. Never.
Heard of the #metoo movement? Or #nothankyou ? Or #nomeansno ?

Eliot page makes me want to cry. Such a brilliant female actor, then gets Eliots breasts removed and wants to be called a man. What is wrong with being a lesbian? What is wrong with breasts? Why would anyone want major surgery?

Anyway. Eliot can use the ladies. Tbh Laverne can use the ladies too, I don't care.

I don't want males anywhere I'm naked so no Laverne in female gym changing rooms etc. And to make it fair Laverne should compete in men's or open sports categories. Eliot can compete in whatever Eliot wants.

I'll use pronouns, names etc but in situations where biology matters then it should be done on birth sex not identity.

I think medical professionals should give them treatment for their mental health issues and not be able to perform gender affirming surgery.

They should both present however they like in terms of clothing, have relationships with anyone that’s consenting etc. But when it comes to toilets, changing rooms etc they should both use spaces for the sex they are, so Cox should use the male toilets and Page should use the female.

And they shouldn’t expect to control others language. I would use he/him for Cox and she/her for Page because that is what they are and also what they look like. It’s very simple.

I feel very sorry for them both not being able to accept who they are, it must be awful to feel such disconnect with your body. The answer should never be blockers, hormones and surgery though. It’s a mental health issue.

In short, cope with the idea that other people have needs and feelings too, and are not NPCs in trans lives.

No biological males in women’s sports. Ever.

For the rest I think it depends if they’ve had bottom surgery. Certainly no penises in women’s prisons, rape counselling groups etc.

Im on the fence about toilets. I think if someone is genuinely trying to live their life as a woman then it’s unfair to force them into the men’s toilets. But I do get the safety aspect of nefarious individuals accessing it as a women’s space.

Stop, just STOP erasing words like woman and mother from eg medical literature. I will not be erased from society because of 0.01% of the population!!!

If she were an athlete or wanted to be a competitive sportsperson, how would she go about that - or would she just not?

Just not. There are many reasons people have to give up their dream of a competitive sports career: injury, mental health, not being talented enough. Transitioning gender just has to be one of those reasons. I really can’t see any other way that womens sport can survive. And let’s be frank, it hasn’t been around very long at all. Women were only allowed to run marathons since the 1970s. Womens rugby is even more recent. Womens sport has always been precarious. By all means, be trans. Go about your business. Use whatever pronouns you want. Use whatever toilets you want for all I care. But this is where I personally draw the line.

Leaving this here

Honestly I'd be totally happy sharing a space with someone like Laverne Cox , I wouldn't feel intimidated but if someone like that transwoman ex murderer trying to be a politician that was shouting about smashing terfs in the face, or the one trying to out the hotel over the changing room thing came into a ladies toilet I would not go into a toilet cubicle or let my daughter.
I'm sorry but it's just gut feeling and transwoman that don't pass at all and seem to almost try to look like odd or ugly old ladies on purpose honestly scare me.
Self preservation instincts you learn to live with a girl and woman are hard to shake and shouldn't be ignored.

"Stay in your lane" is the first phrase that springs to mind.

Trans-identifying males stick to the male lane and if they protest work with other males to allocate different resources

Trans-identifying females don't present a physical threat to females. They will be accepted back in to the fold of women when they stop trying to erase words such as 'mother' 'breast-feeding' etc

People should do whatever the fuck they want to do as long as they don’t a. Compel speech, b. Access opposite sex spaces

@AmaListening why should my daughter not be able to compete at a national level with those of the same natal sex as she is? Can you please explain. Thanks.

I would like every human to recognise the real experience and disadvantages that female biology and physiology brings compared to male biology and physiology. And then protect the sex based rights and dignities of females of all ages accordingly worldwide. That’s it.

What transpeople do or don’t do then becomes irrelevant.

Whatever they like really with the understanding that single sex spaces should be for those of that biological sex.

Less agression for those that don't include you in their dating pools based on your new identity.

Men should not compete with women in sports where there is an advantage by nature of their sex.

They should compete in an open category and let women have women's sport.

I don't give a fuck what pronouns they use or their names or how they dress and I don't even mind if they're peeing in the cubicle next to me.

But stay the fuck out of women's sport.

I've named changed for this. My DD is a national level sportswoman and if they don't sort the fucking mess that is current in sports, her and all her team mates will never play at a national level again and that's just unfair. When compared to those who are bodied as they are, those of the same natal sex, they are elite athletes. But no matter how hard they train, they will never mitigate the advantages of male bodies.

Great post @Froodwithatowel

GC are pro women - and children. That’s all there is to it.

I'd like to understand what someone with anti-women views thinks women should do.

Let men do whatever they want apparently, because men still think women shouldn't have rights, even the men larping as women.

Women should shhh and #bekind etc.

I am also not being provocative, but genuinely don't understand why Laverne Cox (whoever they are) can't go to the toilet in the gents if they have a penis and why they can't compete in sport alongside men if they have a male body and went through male puberty.

If the argument is that they may be targetted if they go to the gents there are a few issues here:

1. Educate MEN not to be so bloody aggressive and leave other men who happen to wear dresses in peace to use the urinals. Don't instead make women suffer for men's inadequacy.

2.) If the threat of other men is so terrible that they (Cox) can't wee amongst them (men), how is this double standard not burningly obvious to you? In trans movement logic, it's not OK for males who ID as females to be put at physical risk but it is OK for biological females to be put at physical risk from self id-ing opportunists. Why? The only logical reason I can fathom is that men are fundamentally more entitled than women and should get what they want when they want it and women should accommodate their demands in smiley silence.

3. How is Cox using the men's loo not a gender-binary problem? Men should be able to wear whatever they want - beardy blokes in frilly frocks are fine by me if they know they are men. We need to train MEN to accept that other men dress as they please, as is their right and if they want to wee with a frilly frock on, they can if there is space at the urinal. Can you explain what the problem would be with this outcome?

I'd like to understand what someone with anti-women views thinks women should do.

Imagine you had it exactly your way. What should those human beings, who feel and identify the way they do, do about every aspect like: their names, medical care, surgery, homosexual relationships, social spaces, work, sports, refuges when they're in life threatening relationships?

How should women who can't access mixed sex spaces escape life threatening relationships when all the refuges have been made mixed sex for male people who couldn't tolerate any remaining female only ones? How should women who don't have the privilege to access mixed sex spaces due to race, culture, belief, disability and trauma use the toilets, go swimming, use hospital wards or have intimate medical care?

I'd really like to understand what the world looks like for women if we carry these views through to their end points.

It seems fairly simple to me: we can provide female only spaces, and mixed sex spaces/gender neutral additional spaces, and expect male people to cope with that other people have needs too and tolerate this for the sake of everyone being included and having equality of access to society.

Or we can just exclude these inconvenient women (who are taxpayers) from society altogether so that male people never encounter any bit of reality that makes them uncomfortable and have absolute freedom of choice. It will be an unequal, exclusionary society in which however you dress it up, the male sex win and the female sex lose. Particularly the less privileged female sex.

Which to you seems like the good option?

Why not read the billion threads on this? It's very simple - do what you want, wear what you like, but don't appropriate the safe spaces of women (let's face it, this is a one-way street), don't fool yourself into believing you have defied the laws of science and magically changed sex, and do not try to force anyone else to go along with what you think/believe/wish for.

We would appreciate it if they could stay the fuck away from our legally protected sex segregated spaces and stay the fuck out of our sport

Also would be appreciated if they can do a degree in human biology

They can have whatever personality, clothes and hair ‘do they like, but they remain the sex they were born and use the facilities accordingly.

Accept that if you’re a bloke wearing women’s clothes that you are going to get a few odd looks going into the men’s loos, but that ultimately that’s a consequence of the choices you have made, the same way women don’t walk around in short skirts and low cut tops because of the looks they get.

I would add: proper medical research on gender dysphoria, with differential diagnosis, and with the least invasive options offered first. Serious unbiased research and information on effects of surgery and hormones, with long term follow up, both of the physical and psychological outcome. Public health systems offering only treatments with documented positive outcome. Treatment on minors regulated as all other medical treatments. I think it will take many years - if possible at all - to have a robust diagnostic process that can minimise chances of regret, but this is the direction I hope we will move towards.

Yes this . Do not fall for the misconception we want trans to disappear. We don’t care .

we just want out language back , our spaces back and young adults not to be given drugs or surgery . Plus we don’t want lies told in schools .

They can do whatever they want, except force others to pretend that they see a woman when they see a man, or that someone with a penis is welcome in a women-only space. In other words, they are free to live as they please as long as they don't try to dominate and manipulate others into living and behaving as they unilaterally decree.

I personally don't have a problem with using trans pronouns for trans people who are just getting on with their lives. But I won't pretend that some beardy bloke with a history of sexual violence, wedged into a pink frilly dress and stockings, demanding the right to be moved to a women's prison or demanding right to access a women only spa is a woman. Nor will I support 6'6" trans women who went through male puberty dominating female sport. And it isn't literal violence to say so.

I realised recently I have no problem at all with trans people. I have a massive problem with the trans movement because it is, in essence, profoundly misogynistic, entitled, emotionally immature and incapable of admitting that there are people who are using it for nefarious means who are not in any way genuinely trans. When the movement roots out the abusers and perverts and when it shows full respect to women, I will be more open to taking it seriously.