If you're GC, what should trans people actually do?

Agree with all of this.

Wtf does "living as a woman" mean?! There are millions of different women out there all living different lives.

And I will let my pug know about all the prospective students on MN that want to sign up to his classes 😂

As GC, I would like male born people to keep out of female only spaces, to include toilets, changing rooms and hospital wards. I also want female only groups to be solely for biological females. That includes support groups, activities, social groups and sports.
Why do women have to accept trans women into their spaces and not men?

Changing rooms in women's clothes shops. No. Online shopping is available. Why should female shoppers be made to feel uncomfortable?

Treat the blindingly obvious mental health issues before medical gender reassignment treatment is considered.

No trans ideology being pushed on school age children and teenagers. No medical intervention for anyone under the age of 25. By all means dress how you want, give yourself a new name. Just don't damage your body. I simply don't believe people have matured enough to make such permanent decisions and the evidence from detransitioners supports this.

I do not wish to refer to someone as their preferred gender when I can clearly see with my own eyes that they are not what they are saying they are. Call yourself what you want but do not force me to say something I don't believe in.

No punishment for misgendering. Such as teachers being reprimanded for "misgendering" a pupil they have know for years who has suddenly decided to change their pronouns. Stop this madness.

I've no issues with trans, just don't try and tell me Bullshit!

Should Elliot not have had top surgery?

Elliot can absolutely have the surgery that they wish to have and can afford to pay for (presumably the best surgeon available). What Elliot does to Elliot’s body is no business of mine.

What I very much object to in relation to Elliot’s double elective mastectomy is two issues. One, how Elliot seems to pretend that being sexually exploited and sexually assaulted has nothing to do with their efforts to opt out of being female by removing their breasts. Two, and much much more importantly, that Elliot was compelled to validate their surgery by posting photos of themselves, shirt off, showing off their mastectomy scars on social media.

In ‘celebrating’ their new authentic self, Elliot is influencing thousands of young impressionable, likely autistic, teenage girls to hate their bodies and seek to mutilate their own bodies without fully realising the surgical risks and the long term implications. That, to me, was the utter height of breathtaking irresponsible narcissism and I despise Elliot for doing so.

I'm not really sure why I'm defending myself because I'm very comfortable to be considered a terf and GC because I am, and this is really going off topic.
But are you honestly saying you see no difference between someone like Laverne Cox and the person in Scotland in the women's prison.
Laverne Cox doesn't sometimes present as male, she has lived for years as a woman to me she does not present as someone with a fetish or with seething misogyny issues and so I feel more comfortable accepting her.
Right or wrong that's just my truth.

I have no issue with trans people, non binary people. People can identify in whatever way is comfortable to them. But I do feel there needs to be a distinction between women and trans women. In terms of spaces we need gender neutral spaces and women's spaces. In sport trans women should not be competing on women's teams. They should absolutely have a platform. It should not be women's platform.

Realize that human behaviors are on a continuum. There are not male behaviors and female behaviors. If you like certain things that you believe only females are supposed to like that doesn't mean you are a female.

There are female bodies and male bodies. Changing the genitals doesn't change anything. You still have the bone density and muscle mass of a male. If you want to participate in sports make it intramural not competitive.

Don't come on a forum meant for 10-15 year old girls, dealing with areas surrounding menarche, and try to invade it or get it shut down because girls are told that menstruation is a normal natural part of becoming a woman. It is. It is what the female body experiences.

What should trans do? Don't invade female spaces. Don't tell us what a woman is!

I'm critical of gender (a system of stereotypes) in much the way I'm critical of religion and the concept of god. I don't see much difference in gender as understood by traditional religious types and gender as viewed by trans activists.

That said, I'm happy for others to believe in God, or to believe that people have gendered souls or that people should only perform the stereotypes that match their sex. It's only a problem when I'm expected to believe the same or my children are taught this as fact or when other people's beliefs breach my boundaries and safety.

Answer to your question.
Ultimately, a society where gender stereotypes are less popular would probably result in less people feeling the need to transition. Difference is tolerated. It is normal .It doesn't lead to punishment (conservative gender ideas) or body modification (trans ideology gender ideas).

In the meantime trans people - adults - can go on being trans people but the misinformation campaign stops. You're not helping anyone's mental health with lies and coercion. There's nothing inherent to believing in gendered souls which means a trans person needs to override boundaries or compell others speech. They're just people like the rest tus.

Trans people can be valued loved respected as trans people amongst people who don't believe, just Muslims and Christians live side by side.

And all this effort that goes into telling children who don't conform that they need to alter their bodies can go instead into tackling the very homophobia and sexism which causes gender (both the right wing and the trans ideology version) in the first place.

Any thoughts on what you've learnt from this thread OP?

People can’t change sex. Men should use men’s spaces and not violate women’s privacy or our rights to fair sport or basic dignity.

Educate men so that tranwomen can use their changing rooms, toilets without abuse.

Educate men so transwomen can compete in their teams and categories.

Women continue to access single sex toilets, wards, changing rooms, prisons, rape crisis centres without fear that any man who chooses to change their pronouns that day can enter it to without question.

Women's sports podiums will still be celebrating female achievement in 50 years time and will not be dominated by transwomen.

Health professionals will be able to use biological language while remaining respectful of a person's identity.

Women will no longer be referred to as 'cervix owners' 'non men' or 'person with childbearing potential'. Just as men won't be known as 'non women' 'prostate owners' or 'persons with ejeculating potential'.

If tummy rubs and snuggles are on the syllabus then sign me up for the course.

Personally, I can not set the difference between Laverne Cox "living as a woman" and a man putting on a skirt or dying their hair blue and saying they are a woman, at all.

Ok, so in your ideal world, where would Laverne Cox go to the toilet, if out in public? If she were an athlete or wanted to be a competitive sportsperson, how would she go about that - or would she just not?

Where do you think LC should go to the loo or compete in sports?

BUT WHERE WILL THE DOGS THAT IDENTIFY AS PROFESSORS TEACH IF PEOPLE UNREASONABLY INSIST ON SEEING WHAT'S REALLY THERE AND SAYING 'BUT THAT'S JUST A DOG'? HAVE YOU THOUGHT OF THAT YOU BIGOTS? HAVE YOU? HMM?

But what does "living as a woman" mean when you're a man?

@MidCent I'm not trying to offer consent for other women I'm giving my personal opinion of how I personally would feel.
For me there is a vast difference between someone like Laverne Cox living as a woman and a man putting on a skirt or dying their hair blue and saying they are a woman,
I would not agree with laverne participating in women's sports and I'd genuinely love to know if Elliot Page and other young trans men choose to go in the smelly men's loo's without feeling massive vulnerability.

Is Somerville still around? Does anyone remember when she identified as trans to make a point with some kind of award scheme at work?

The point (aka problem) is that anyone can say they're anything they want. Even if they're not what they're claiming. For whatever purpose.

I still remember and respect her for that.

I think medical professionals should give them treatment for their mental health issues and not be able to perform gender affirming surgery.

Well, yes, quite. That's obvious but not what TRAs want to hear.

😍 I would ace professor’s Ear Rub class

😬😂

My pug identifies as a Cambridge professor 🎓He's very wise. What would you advise him to do if he wants to live out his true identity? I think Cambridge should accommodate him.

I agree with all of this

It's very striking to see them next to each other