If you're GC, what should trans people actually do?

I want to not have to engage in the delusion that one of these; XY, becomes one of these ;XX, because of a feeling. I might feel that I'm the Queen of Sheba but in reality I'm not.
I want to be able to use facilities which are only for these XX, I want sports to be segregated on the same basis.
I want people to stop saying TWAW as a mantra because they aren't. See above.
I want people to acknowledge biological reality.
I want people to realize we, none of us, get everything we want;because we compromise.
People can wear what they want, modify their body how they want, but I don't have to go along with the delusion.
I will be polite if the other side is. If I'm left alone and don't have to pretend , I'm fine.
Live your best life, don't intrude, we will all be happy.
Oh, and stop issuing violence to 'TERFS'.
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I'm not really seeing any kind of gotcha there. as with sports etc there should be two categories, namely women's (only bio women welcome) and open (all welcome). literally every regular poster on this board believes this.

Narcissists, Helle!

This is always a false argument. I would be surprised if your friend also doesn’t completely understand that it is ‘male cues’ that come from either male genes or testosterone treatment in female that is the issue.

Most transitioned females who drop by on Mn FWR tell us that do fully understand the issue and they understand that they took actions to modify their bodies to replicate those male cues and would and do find alternative toilets. Some didn’t even use male toilets as transitioned females.

Why do people present that argument while believing they are ‘kind’ people? Why the fuck do people weaponise women and childen’s trauma against them in this way?

Who the fuck thinks ‘Well if those women want to exclude males from toilets they are going to have testosterone modified female people complete with beards in their spaces! That will teach them for wanting female only single sex spaces!’ is ‘kind’ and morally superior and on the right side of history?

Seriously WTAF?

A gender neutral toilet and an open sporting category are the obvious solutions.

How one feels has nothing to do with the reality of sex in certain types of situation.

There's loads of yanks on here.

They are who they are, males who feel better presenting as women. Transwomen.

The solution to practical arrangments is third, 'gender neutral' spaces, services and categories. That way everyone gets their dignity and comfort needs met.

And if your female friend with a beard were to be convicted of a crime would you want this friend to locked in a cell with a male?

and if ’he’ were to become pregnant would you want ’him’ to be denied maternity care on the basis of ’his’ male gender identity?

and would you want your friend to die from cervical cancer because ‘his’ male marker on ‘his’ medical records meant ‘he’ wasn’t properly screened and didn’t get an early enough diagnosis to survive?

I don’t want transmen to be harmed by gender ideology-do you? Because calling your friend male, and treating her as male, is putting her at risk of all sorts of unintended consequence.

It's true, we probably wouldn't be happy if we saw someone who looked like a man in the women's toilets. But you know what? That's their problem, not ours. If your friend, who is a woman, has decided to make herself look like a man, then she has to deal with the consequences.

Fortunately, I don't really care if your friend uses the men's toilets, changing rooms or whatever. My concern as a feminist is to stop biological men using women's spaces.

As he said to me the other day - GC feminists want him to use the women’s bathroom?

All these English people and their "bathrooms".

@RavingStone 💐

Have you read the full thread, @vibecheck? Outlying cases like this were addressed earlier. Not everyone may have agreed on the proposals, but it was far from “[All] GC feminists want…”

What we want, above all, is to be listened to, read, not misrepresented, demonised or ridiculed.

I am sorry, can you explain this. You were born male but identify as female? Or do you mean as feminine?

I know a trans man, I work with him and he’s become a close friend. He looks more “manly” (whatever that means) than most biologically born men that I know - he has a big beard, is built like a man with men’s muscles and a six pack, his jawline puts my husband’s to shame. He’s been transitioned for a long time and so on testosterone for a long time. As he said to me the other day - GC feminists want him to use the women’s bathroom? And women’s changing rooms? Most of you would hit the roof if you were washing your hands and he appeared out of a toilet cubicle.

Cox declares themselves as a feminist yet resolutely denies they have experienced male privilege. The incongruous nature of that statement shows me that Cox has no fucking idea and is certainly not a feminist.

Can anyone name one female actor who came onto the scene at the same time Cox did and could have ever won acclaim and roles presenting as a man? Anyone? Would that female be touted as ‘the most (substitute ‘beautiful’ for a male equivalent) man in the world’? I doubt it.

Cox has ridden on male privilege all along. Not to be confused with the oppression that Cox experienced as a gay male who was feminine in presentation which I have no doubt Cox experienced. But still male privilege.

No. Just no. Cox is a male just as any other male person on this planet.

Are we supposed to reward Cox because they are not calling for women who disagree with Cox ‘Nazis’? Are we supposed to reward them with acceptance in some way into womanhood?

'Laverne Cox doesn't sometimes present as male, she has lived for years as a woman to me she does not present as someone with a fetish or with seething misogyny issues'

How does 'living as a woman' work? Wearing your hair long? Using make up?

And fetishes are not generally visible. Nor is misogyny.

I doubt poor wee Eliot could fight off a dead dog.

Cox is homosexual which makes Cox a lot less likely (in criminology & statistics terms) to be using women’s spaces for voyeuristic reasons.

But opening the door to Cox also opens the door to Isla Bryson, which is why the boundary line for single sex spaces has to be drawn at biological sex, not at ‘females plus some special males’.

I reckon Cox could actually beat Bryson in a fight but no way could Page fight off either of the males.

Quite agree, I noticed that a body of a Bronze age warrior had been dug up. The body was assumed to be male because it was almost non existent apart from the teeth. They ground down the teeth and found that they were XX.
Think about how profound that is?
Laverne can be whatever they want, dress as they want, I know from personal experience that there are lots of men out there who like a feminine soul.
The one thing she is not and never can be is a woman.

Why should GC individuals have to explain what trans people should do?
I will be upfront I was born male but identify as female. That does not mean I can become a woman, it just means that I can have boyfriends who treat me as a feminine partner. The problem is that the trans debate has become all about taking rights from women and then expecting them to comply, because that is the misogynists view of women.

They're both men and neither of them pass,Laverne just has a slightly better disguise.

Too much make up and swishy hair.

And we shouldn’t be expected to become human shields for GNC men when other men are the actual problem, not women.

Agree.

plus boys and girls have different growth trajectories from birth (hence two different charts) so girls should be able to have their own teams and categories way before puberty

(wherever it’s practically possible, I realise is some tiny rural schools kids will have to play mixed, but even then they can still find ways to recognise girl athletes on their own merits - top scorer girls and top scorer boys, male player of the match and female player of the match etc)

Just picking up a point earlier where it says that men are more likely to be a victim of violence. Thus is true BUT it is violence FROM MEN, so again nothing to do with women. Not our problem to solve.