If you're GC, what should trans people actually do?

You wouldn't be. The open category is for you, or any woman who wants it.

Hence 'open'.

Christ. With friends like you who needs enemies?

Based on an ideology that has literally no basis in reality, you would send your female friend into a prison full of male criminals.

Fuck me. I've never seen so much misogyny.

You see female sports as ‘othering’ female people? Have I misunderstood?

I doubt that 'he' no longer has a cervix but 'he' certainly does not have a prostate. Nor is 'he' likely to be as tall as a man, 'his' hips will be wider and shoulders narrower unless 'he' has had extreme bone surgery.
True 'he' may well have secondary characteristics associated with men but this lasts as long as the implants, tablets or gel or applied.
I personally see no problem with using the Gents, fortunately there are cubicles where 'he' can go to sit and pee.

I tend to agree curlew except on the breastfeeding bit. No male should be feeding secretions from their own breasts to infants as those secretions have not been even adequately studied and declared safe.

but that is a discussion already had on numerous threads and I do not want to derail this one.

God, I just don’t want women to be segregated in this way. I don’t want to be constantly defined by my biology and othered by it, whilst everyone else gets to be “all welcome”.

They are adults- they can do whatever they want so long as it does not impinge on other people's rights. Trans people should be able to live their lives free from discrimination, fear, prejudice or judgement, and should be have the same rights and protections that other people have.That includes among other things, sport and breastfeeding. If I was in charge, there would be no body modifying surgery under the age of 18, and no body modifying surgery without counselling. And the counselling would be proper counselling, not affirmation surgery.

“But if he were to commit a crime I would expect him to be in a man’s prison, yes. I’ve not discussed it with him but I’m sure he would as well.”

And this is how harmful entrenched ideological thinking is. Putting female people into male prisons, and vice versa, and thinking this is appropriate. Thinking this is even righteous.

Language is important, I am male with motivations more closely associated with stereotypical feminine interests.
My motivations have no impact on my biological sex, nor would any amount of surgery andor hormones.
Selling the fantasy of a 'sex change' is deeply harmful, there needs to be a honest discussion that you can lead whatever lifestyle you like (within the law) without being mutilated.

Your friend would be at huge risk in a man's prison. Because your friend is female.

@NicolaSturgeonsSOGIbottom - my friend no longer has the ability to become pregnant, and no longer has a cervix. He does have relevant medical screenings to him, including a mammogram due to early family history of breast cancer (he’s had much of his breast tissue removed but obviously can still develop breast cancer, as can biological males). But if he were to commit a crime I would expect him to be in a man’s prison, yes. I’ve not discussed it with him but I’m sure he would as well.

I have someone a lot closer to home to think about.

OP what do you think Laverne whosis and Elliot Page should do?

Yes, it’s almost as if there is some willed confusion going on, but that is surely impossible.

Just checking the logic. Thanks for clarifying.

We know there we male people with trans identities who have claimed ‘female’ as their sex category but it didn’t sound consistent with what you were posting. So thanks for clarifying.

Either way, I don’t believe people posting that opinion as a ‘gotcha’ understand with any depth the basis of females wanting their single sex spaces, or they have seen it used so often on social media that they fail to use any critical thinking about how it doesn’t work. That how when it is viewed in the full picture of women and children needing single sex spaces to cope with trauma and for privacy and dignity, it shows just how fucked up lacking in empathy and how narcissist it makes some trans people and their allies look. Ie. Those deploying this as some sick fucked up ‘gotcha’.

This.

RTFT.

HTH.

You could well be right?

That poster may only be telling us part of the story though. Or, that female individual has adopted a fully misogynistic approach to life.

Either way, I don’t believe people posting that opinion as a ‘gotcha’ understand with any depth the basis of females wanting their single sex spaces, or they have seen it used so often on social media that they fail to use any critical thinking about how it doesn’t work. That how when it is viewed in the full picture of women and children needing single sex spaces to cope with trauma and for privacy and dignity, it shows just how fucked up lacking in empathy and how narcissist it makes some trans people and their allies look. Ie. Those deploying this as some sick fucked up ‘gotcha’.

I think trans people should feel safe and able to be whoever they want to be.

However that doesn't extend to using female only spaces because biologically they are not female.

I know that may feel unfair but that's life. Sometimes we have to live with less than ideal circumstances. I don't find it fair, for example, that as a woman if I wanted a biological child, I would have to live through pregnancy and labour. I would love to be able to be like a man and have a child that is biologically mine without any physical consequences. Unfortunately our biology means we must live with some injustices.

I would like child safeguarding to be prioritised above feelings and identity issues.

I only want to hear the phrase "most marginalised" again if it's in reference to people like the girls of Afghanistan, the Uighur Muslims of China or the destitute of Somalia.

Precisely, it is a personal perception which is fine but once an attempt is made to project onto diminishing others rights is completely unacceptable.

Sorry I meant feminine, apologies for any perceived appropriation.

I don't believe the female people who identify as men have any more clue about being a man than the male people who identify as women do about being a woman. However, they impose on the opposite sex much less.

Ask him what he thinks 'morning wood' is? No it is not a classical baroque piece.
'He' does not have a scooby about having a penis, the average ratio of shoulders to hips for a man is 1.18 to 1 for a woman it is 1.03 to 1.
Be serious does he actually pass as a man?

There's loads of yanks on here.

I know, but a lot of British people often recite the same by the numbers crap about "bathrooms" that they get from American trans activists. "Changing rooms" is a British expression so it's jarring. Just a throwaway observation.