If you're GC, what should trans people actually do?

Infiltrate and colonise, a perfect Trojan horse manoeuvre by the patriarchy.

Ebony would be 43 year old probably with children and maybe even grandchildren now if some sick twisted bastards hadn't murdered her. And Laverne thought her murderer was a good person to champion?!? Bloody hell.

I can't discuss Laverne Cox without thinking about the time Cox spoke in support of a child murderer.

'Laverne Cox launches media campaign in support of transwoman Synthia China Blast: convicted for the rape, murder and abuse of the corpse of thirteen-year-old Ebony Nicole Williams'

Extreme content warning, the crimes Synthia carried out were absolutely horrific.

Cox later withdrew support, but tbh, I think that's too little, too late.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/skarlan/laverne-cox-reads-a-letter-from-a-transwoman-currently-in-pr

"Laverne Cox partnered with us on our End Solitary campaign by reading a letter from SRLP member Synthia China Blast in a video, but has since requested that we remove the video from our site because of her concerns about Synthia’s convictions. We understand her decision is based on concerns about violence against children. We also understand that it is challenging to respond to the reality of violence within our communities, and is an ongoing challenge many of us face in our lives and work. While we understand this struggle, we also reaffirm our support for Synthia China Blast, and our position on prison abolition and transformative justice."'

My thoughts are with Ebony. May she rest in peace.

The world they are trying to create is dystopian in the extreme.

Absolutely agree.

@AmaListening what would you do if your child thought they were a tractor or could act like a tractor up until age 11 and then again at age 30?

Agreed!

This has been an interesting thread and I would like to thank @AmaListening for asking the question and listening to the answers.

@nepeta

Yes, OP, that would be great if you could try to find this out for us. Should women be allowed to talk about what being female is, or should this be banned for exclusionary thinking. Should all women have to refer to themselves as "people who are pregnant", "people who have vaginas" etc as a matter of course?

@AmaListening, thanks for living up to your name & reflecting on replies.

I think this thread represents, for the most part, a powerful rebuttal to some of the more extreme clichés & misrepresentations of so-called TERFs.

(One to archive, if I only knew how!?)

A world in which s transwoman who has a child is a mother, but a woman is a 'birthing parent '

Where a transwoman can take hormones and breastfeed, but a woman is referred to as a chest feeder

A transwoman can have a fake blood period but women having periods are menstruators.

Total takeover

Thinking of the topic of this thread it occurred to me that the reverse thread could also be informative: What kind of world do the most fervent trans activists, say, want to create for women? Would we be allowed to have a name for the female sex etc.?

I am quite sure that when I was quite young (five years or so) I knew that I was a girl the same way that I knew what colour my eyes and hair were: I learned these things by other people telling me and, by mirrors.

But what I felt inside me was just that I was myself/me. Being a girl only became restrictive later when it was used to deny me things I wanted to do or to push me into things I didn't want to do.

I also remember playing imaginary games on my own, outside, where I pretended that I was all sorts of people, including men (Robin Hood was one), and didn't feel any sort of dysphoria about that.

(And I think that Elliot page deserves a lot of sympathy - his early life was shitty. Do I believe he is a male? no. I don't really believe anyone does, tbh - there is no question of him truly passing really. Do I believe that he knows what it is like to be male? No to that too. I'd use his pronouns, but I do feel uncomfortable that someone who clearly has so much sadness in them even after surgery etc is being held up as the poster person for this trend. I think that Elliot Page is a hugely vulnerable individual and has had a lot to grapple with. If I had been abused in the way he had and had to attempt to be gender non conforming and lesbian in the public spotlight at a very early age, I might want to opt out of female and seek to be male as a refuge, frankly. But would I make policy for kids based on what Elliot believes looking back on his life? No, I wouldn't.

Laverne Cox is unfortunately a bit of a misogynist and isn't an amazing example. I don't think laverne should share female safe spaces or compete in women's sport even at a recreational level - there are social mixed teams at grassroots level in some sports and otherwise she should be in the "open" category. This is, for what it is worth, a view that is shared by Caitlin Jenner, who understands that she could have won the women's heptathlon well
Into her 40s, has she transitioned. I am happy to use her pronouns, but I do not see her as female.

If laverne were raped, I would think that she would need specialist support that isn't focused on females, tbh. Just as an example, many females who are raped might need to consider pregnancy as an outcome - why would a trans woman genuinely want to join an all female support group, surely it would either be hurtful to be contemplating their obvious sex differential, or you have to have women minimise and pretend this very specific female experience (concern about pregnancy due to rape) isn't an inherently female one. Sounds shit, unless the TW actually gets off on everyone pretending that they are just like the rape victims in even this way).

It was actually through sport that I began to realise the true impact of pronouns.

When MacKinnon/Ivy used the fact that people used female pronouns for male people as leverage for males to compete in female categories. It is all linked when you start to pick through it all.

It goes- because people use opposite sex pronouns they must fully believe that males can become women. And if that is the case, then those male people have successfully become women. And ‘women’ are female people. So therefore those males have become female people too.

Because people use opposite sex pronouns for those male people.

And once I saw that sporting federations accepted this and allowed males into female sports, I realised there is a reason pronouns are a problem.

Well that and the now constant stream of male crimes being reported as female crimes. And they even then put those males in female prisons. And female victims have to use preferred pronouns when talking about their rapists in court!

All because pronouns have to be ‘respected’.

That is where being ‘kind’ gets us.

yip @FatAgainItsLettuceTime absolutely agree.

the friend who said I was TERFSCUM asked me how I felt about being called TERFSCUM.

His face was a picture when I said I was fine with him calling me that. It's irrelevant to me what he thinks - he has nothing to lose. Me and my whole sex have a lot to lose. If he wants to miscall me and make up new terms for me, that's fine - when someone shows you who they are believe them and all that.

Oops that last point should be

• allow children to be irreparably harmed through medical and surgical means in the pursuit of the impossible goal of changing sex

@proudofmydd I'm fine with being TERF Scum too. If believing that it's wrong to lock a woman in a prison cell with a male bodied rapist makes me scum then I'm scum.

I also think it's wrong to:

• relegate female athletes to losing female competitions so that men can feel included and validated
• refuse female patients single sex provision if they are in need of intimate care like the changing of sanitary products, assistance with toileting and washing.
• prevent children from being irreparably harmed through medical and surgical means in the pursuit of the impossible goal of changing sex

This is what I've been told.

I've been called TERFSCUM for saying I'd call someone by whatever name they chose, I'd use whatever pronouns they wanted, I'd even pee beside them in a ladies loo. They can dress how they want and present how they want.

But natal men had an advantage in sport that that wasn't fair. My red line began in sport, because my dd works bloody hard, she is in the gym just about every day at 5am, she has practice 3 nights a week, matches every weekend. And all that would be taken away from her and she would be at best a 2nd or 3rd town team player, if the categories are opened up to transgender women. And that is just fundamentally not fair.

But I was called TERFSCUM for that opinion.

Which didn't exactly endear them to me. And then I started to think about women's spaces, refuges, counselling, what about women with religious or cultural reasons for needing a solely natal female space, what about abused women who need a safe space, what about ....

And then I found I didn't mind being called TERFSCUM at all.

@AmaListening thankfully for now her sport has moved to a situation where to compete in as a female you have to have had your sex recorded as female at birth. But it's not been an easy situation to get to.

If a man plays with her team, they will put their own team and their opponents, who are natal females, at risk of physical injury.

They will also stop all females being elite athletes in the sport (athlete I'm using instead of sportsperson - I don't mean in any way to imply that my DD is a track athlete) - and I just don't think that's fair. If transgender women play in the women's category then there will be no natal women on the team at all. Men are taller, heavier, stronger and have greater lung capacity. The team will be all transgender women if that's the road that is gone down.

Yes Eresh, I believe it was all about the optics of it all.

Cox’s rebuttal of Chimandra’s comment on why males are not ever going to be females because of male privilege, just showed Cox’s male privilege.

OP if you say that you don't think men should compete with women, then you are GC. You don't think a TW is always a woman or at least not like the 'other' (natal?) women. So you are a TERF. Welcome.

I remember when Laverne Cox did this. I remember they had no fucking clue that they prioritised a rapist murder over the 13 year old female victim.

Yes, I don't think Laverne was particularly bothered, apart from about the optics of it all.

This post cannot be posted often enough.

I remember when Laverne Cox did this. I remember they had no fucking clue that they prioritised a rapist murder over the 13 year old female victim. I suspect that that compulsion to dismiss the female victim is a feature not a bug.

When trying to figure out why women end up believing they are men, or why men think they have a feeling of being a women, I think it helps to read their own words on the topic.

For example here's a recent post from Reddit's "MtF" forum, note that most of the replies are in agreement. Many more examples like this if you browse through this community.