If you're GC, what should trans people actually do?

Like Seb Coe saying he will 'die in a ditch' to protect elite sport. So tough shit to the other 95%! it doesn't make a lick of sense. Clearly, they don't give women and girls a second thought. Also, they must surely be very stupid?

Im amazed how many men pronouncing on women’s sport have obviously ever give 2 mins thought to how their clever plan would work.

So girls could play eg competitive hockey from the age of around 7 to 12. Then they couldn’t play at all anymore as all teams would consist of boys and young men as they are stronger and faster. All the places on the performance pathway will be taken by boys.

So the girls can just run up and down the sidelines for 5-6 years. Of course they need to keep up all their skills despite never playing in a competitive game.

Then at the age of 18 they will suddenly start being elite players and be allowed to play in single sex teams. Despite having never played a game in years. Or had access to high level training.

Fully formed elite and profession women athletes will just fall out of the sky like magic .

And if we don't protect grassroots womens sports, there will be no professional sportswomen to protect - amateur sports is where professional sports people come from.

Though according to Guardian sports writer Jonathan Liew, that'd be fine. Inspiring even

sports. If recreational join in with their identified sex, professional sport needs more safeguards for biological women to ensure they’re not disadvantaged.

No! Women are more likely to get injured and always lose if forced to compete against biological males.

Thank you eurochick for this:
I would like there to be respect by all for the few occasions in which biology matters - intimate healthcare and care, prison services, sport, assault and rape services, places where people are in a state of undress.

It’s in the shop for a cervixing.

Hi India! How's your cervix today?

This thread has been really interesting and helpful to someone who has recently found the "GC" camp. My concern started with (now three I think) distant friends / friends of friends who have DD who have recently "decided" they are trans. All in London, which is not where I am, but what happens there tends to spread to everywhere else given time. I fear for the future and am genuinely grateful for the rational and supportive discussions I have found here.

I actually genuinely (not sarcastically) feel for IW. At first I couldn’t stand them then after a while all I could see was a deeply unhappy person probably horrified at what they had done to themselves and then to have done that surgery to still not pass and have people asking them to stay out of women s spaces and to not be seen as one of us by most people. The desperate selfies filtered beyond recognition and the scathing attack on how real women look or dress just shows how bitter. They seem to have no life and no friends and block everyone who tells the truth. The jealousy of real women is apparent. This is what is in store for our young people who wish to surgically alter themselves. I don’t think they are mentally well.

I think IW knows perfectly well that he is a bigot with no leg to stand on. He knows he's a man and that he's pissing on women's boundaries. He just doesn't care because he's a narcissist. So he doesn't want debate because he can't defend his position. Either that or he just can't handle the reality of the fact that just about no one really thinks he's a woman.

And IW instantly blocks and deletes any opposing replies so the responses on India's posts are always one sided. Very weird that India chooses never to debate.

Thank you and what a shame 😞

Ah I see! There are the usual woman hating comments and abuses of women who don't think men's rights are all that matter.

If IW is here on MN, why doesn’t IW stay and debate, I wonder? I’d love to hear IW’s arguments.

Still no answer on what, if inclusion's so important, we do with all these women excluded once a space becomes mixed sex?

I mean, beyond 'well they don't matter'?

Thought not. I'm done with #bekind and I owe respect to no one without there being a mutual reciprocation. This doesn't work for women. How male people feel about this has nothing to do with it, being born male does not render you a more important kind of human.

There's no rational reason to segregate any kind of service by gender. There is no attribute shared by all people of the same gender that would justify such separation. Segregation by gender is exclusionary of those who have no gender or who self-describe as a more unusual gender. Facilities separated by gender not by sex are de facto mixed-sex. If services are not segregated by sex they should not be segregated at all.

There is plenty of well researched and evidenced data showing that when facilities like changing rooms, toilets and detention facilities are not segregated by sex, sexual abuse happens much more. Shocking, eh?

IW we all know you're reading, and we all know you're racist.

You misunderstand me. I'm not on Twitter so I wanted to see what the comments on the post by @bellinisurge were, as I thought the post was very reasonable.

You don't think the comments calling g women transphobes for not agreeing to all former women's spaces being mixed sex are a problem?

Segregation by gender identity is presumably piggybacking off of segregation by sex.

So by sex is wrong, but then they just use that system for their own purpose?

Also, they seem to be in the "gender is a social construct" camp. So they want to segregate via a social construct? When it would be wrong to use the reality of biology?

It's all very confusing.

I've never joined Twitter. Always seemed very toxic, especially to women. I think a lot of these people should get off social media and actually try living in the real world, with real people for a while.

“Trans Bridget Jones?” What is that supposed to mean?

I’ve been off Twitter for almost a year but have never been more tempted to rejoin now I’m a fully-fledged terf.

@RebelliousCow
👌Got you.

I'm staying off Twitter for my own safety, mental health and job security. Is there any way you could do a link so I could see the comments, please?

These seem very reasonable comments to me. I would like to know which part people disagree with. Thank you