Women labelled ‘patients of childbearing potential’ on private London hospital form

Exactly. The current wording is like "people who menstruate". It includes patients who cannot menstruate or have children ie men. It erases women.

Asking an infertile woman her last period has a lot of point. The date of your last period is not only used as an indicator of whether you might be pregnant. Various hormones fluctuate during the menstrual cycle, so for some endocrine issues, it's useful to know which phase of the menstrual cycle the patient is in.

What did your father answer?

On reading my patient notes last year, I saw the statement that I was pregnant. I’m 72. So, not a woman with child bearing potential.

That's where you fill the LMP and 'no' to 'Could you be pregnant?'.

Out of all the things that bother me about centring the T, this is the least of them. If it said women, that would potentially exclude (or cause offence) to parents of girls, as some would ignore it because that would be a question for adults.

I think it's not so much targeted at the patient as it is a descriptor for the box. Anybody of childbearing potential - women, girls, those who do not identify as either - are included in it and it's a pretty important question that needs answering.

<merail>Whenever people make remarks about women leaking or exuding body fluids, I always wonder why chaps' regular leaking and emissions don't seem to count. Ejaculator in Chief is punchy but I should think, "Noxious Emission in Chief" is nearer to my feelings about the usual utterance and ideas.</merail>

I wonder if they've changed the forms in the 6 months since this thread was started? 🧐
Their response makes it seem unlikely.
Not sure it was worth a resurrection though?

patients of childbearing potential

Horrible. That's all we are. We're not even allowed to have a name.

Well I can throw a spanner in the works... definitely could not be pregnant but breastfeeding (still!)

I think when it comes to medical forms we need to concentrate on sex and not gender.

I know there is a tiny tiny minority of babies born where it isn’t quite as clear what sex they are but that can be explained by the parents when handing the form back.
Otherwise I see huge issues in the future where trans women don’t get their prostate checked and trans men don’t get breast cancer screenings or smear tests

Just because someone decides they want to identify as the opposite sex doesn’t mean they can escape the biology of their own bodies

Oh ffs.

'Say biological woman in a way that less than 1% of the population won't kick off about'

If anyone tries that on me, the wanker in charge is not going to like the conversation that follows, because I know a hell of a lot more about actual equality and diversity than he apparently does.

I reject the term 'ejaculator' as this obviously will offend and discriminate against those with an external appendage able to ejaculate, and have chosen a more 'inclusive' term. Personally I find it rude and dehumanising, but apparently that's all the rage.

Women struggling with infertility are known to sometimes spontaneously get pregnant.

It's extremely rare but even women who have had their tubes tied can get pregnant.

Women who haven't had a period for a year or more and believe themselves in menopause can get pregnant.

And yes it's even rarer but even a women who has had a hysterectomy can get pregnant. It would be an ectopic pregnancy and always non viable but it can happen.

These are all rare but my Godmother experienced a pregnancy after official menopause.

Better to just use woman and check these things than risk causing harm by ambiguous language

But I wouldnt know as an infertile woman how to answer that section.

There are absolutely some conditons where infertility is complete ie hysterectomy, ovary removal, having had chemotherapy etc

But for a lot of us infertility is a grey area. Technically Ive had unprotected sex for over a decade and multiple rounds of IVF and so I accept I'm not having children.

But everyone is always telling you when you are infertile about their neighbours cousins twin who got pregnant at 44 after years of trying

And in fact women with PCOS can briefly become more fertile during perimenopause as the hormone fluctions can make their hormones more "normal" which accounts for those "women unexpectedly pregnant at 40+" stories

So am I a person of childbearing potential or not?

Honestly it would be easier to just tick the questions routinely as a woman on a form than go through a flipping existential crisis of whether I have childbearing potential or not. That's actually more upsetting when put that way

Infertile women usually still get periods.

Absolutely agree with the language matters points here. In the census the focus on language acceptable to TRAs resulted in many non-native speakers appearing in the trans/NB/whatever boxes. In medicine such misunderstandings have serious consequences. Received wisdom is that, to be inclusive, these questions need to be clear to and understood by the 8 year old who is translating for their mum. This doesn't pass that test.

Or wankers.

Brilliant! Good idea!
I’m just glad I’m older and don’t have to engage with a lot of this misogynistic crap, if that makes me a TERF or whatever then so be it.

I’m not a ‘woman of child bearing potential’ and haven’t been so for 36 years having had a hysterectomy when I was 33.
It would be interesting to know if that means I should identify as a male in this instance?

*t's no different to calling women 'breeders', 'cervix-owners' or 'uterus-havers'.

These terms refer to women as body parts. They are insulting

Perhaps we should start calling anyone possessing a penis ‘Dick’ or ‘Cock’?

'Childbearing potential'

My grandmother had a very early menopause. At exactly the same age as her mum, my mum's periods petered out, so she went to see her gynaecologist. To dm's utter astonishment, she was pregnant.

Before that appointment, has my mum been seen a question addressed to 'Patients of childbearing potential', she would have skipped it as she considered herself to be menopausal.

Had the question been addressed to 'Females age 10-60' she would at least have had to give it pause for thought, and probably chosen Not Sure.

Language matters.

Idk I think it works quite well. Remember women don't all have the ability to get pregnant. Asking an infertile woman her last period or someone who's had a hysterectomy is pretty pointless.

Well actually stop assuming everyone is like you.

I have two health conditions that come with some pretty severe brain fog which isn't anywhere near an adequate description of how it can affect your cognitive ability. I am FOREVER repeating things people tell me back to them because on bad days any ambiguous language can make it difficult for me to understand what you mean.

So even reading that phrase here. I first interpret as: potentially could be pregnant? No I can't be. I am not having sex.

Next.

This should definitely be headed "females".
I'm sure some women, or particularly teenagers, may think they aren't of childbearing potential because of contraception and then there's a risk of missing a pregnancy caused by contraception failure.

Which rules out infertile women and post-menopausal women- who are all still women.

That's the point! It causes so much upset when you ask infertile women this question

The first question here (let alone the title)is problematic.

Could you be pregnant?

I'm not sure transmen would always answer that accurately.

I've dealt with a complaint where one of my colleagues asked a trans teenager (female to male) to carry out a pregnancy test (our hospital policy is to pregnancy test all woman > 12 years). The teenager and family were upset as they felt we weren't recognising their gender choice.

As a result I've done a lot of reading around this and found out some fun things... I also presented the case at a whole hospital meeting to try to give colleagues vocabulary to explain why we need to pregnancy test female to male trans people for pregnancy to them sensitively.

Transmen (boys) have a disproportionately high rate of teenage pregnancy in a US data set. There are lots of potential reasons why this might be the case

1. self delusion - men don't get pregnant
2. barriers to accessing contraception - you've just spent time arguing with your parents/ HCPs to be thought of as a man so it's difficult to then go in and say "actually I need to go on the pill"
3. HCPs not recognising that transmen still have PIV sex (my colleagues - all doctors - certainly didn't- it made for an interesting morbidity and mortality meeting) therefore not realising that they should be offering contraception to this group.