Page 2 | I chased a man out of the changing rooms ----

betterchange · 2023-08-07T17:08:45+00:00

M+S, ladies'underwear section. It's all cubicles and to be fair, nowhere does it say that it is a women-only changing room, but I think it's likely to be seen as such by most users since it's in the bra-and-knicker-selling section of the shop and there are other changing rooms elsewhere! A woman came out of one of the changing rooms whilst I was queueing and beckoned a man in. I said, I'm sorry, I don't think you should go in there, this is for women trying on underwear. The woman queried this but I stuck to my guns and the woman behind me in the queue backed me up; the man apologised and left. (It probably helped that they sounded as though English wasn't their first language so they may not have known the "rules"! I think it was a genuine misreading/mistake on their part.) Anyway, no harm done, but it made me think - that was easy, but if it had been a very obvious man-dressed-as-a-woman, I'm far from sure that I would have felt able to speak out. In that situation (the man-dressed-as-woman), would anyone here have said anything?

RebelliousCow · 29/10/2023 08:45

BillyNotQuiteNoMates · 28/10/2023 20:23

Just use whichever toilet you want to use, or wait until you get home, and stop telling other people what they should do

That's not how it works. We have rules and boundaries for a reason. A good reason.Nobody can just do whatever they like, irrespective of other people and their rights and needs.

Without boundaries people have no protection. Boundaries are a marker of civilised living.

VoodooQualities · 29/10/2023 08:37

Transwomen aren't at greater risk than women. And if they were, the answer still wouldn't be to let them into women's spaces.

Agrona · 29/10/2023 08:30

BillyNotQuiteNoMates · 29/10/2023 08:24

Trans women are more at risk than cis women, or don’t they matter to you?

No, they really are not. Women are at risk from men, no matter how they identify.

BillyNotQuiteNoMates · 29/10/2023 08:24

Trans women are more at risk than cis women, or don’t they matter to you?

ArthurbellaScott · 29/10/2023 06:58

BillyNotQuiteNoMates · 28/10/2023 22:20

😂😂😂😂
Yes, I’ve used public toilets
And as I’ve said, my DD has been abused for using ladies toilets.
Why is it any different for a woman to have to watch a child or shopping than for a man? Or why do you think they are more at risk from a man in a dress, than from a woman in the women’s toilets or a man in trousers in the gents toilets? Give your head a wobble.
Your argument makes no sense, has no logical basis and just smacks of over dramatic transphobia.

Women are at greater risk from men.

In addition many women just prefer single sex spaces for reasons of privacy, dignity, and religious reasons.

LadyOfTheWagon · 29/10/2023 00:46

MassiveWordSalad · 28/10/2023 23:51

A thread last posted in back in August resurrected to tell women they don't need single sex spaces. Rightio.

An enclosed dressing room is single sex if it's only occupied by a woman. Ultimately, the retailer makes the choice about their dressing room policy and if you don't like it shop elsewhere.

Fredshred · 29/10/2023 00:44

GrumpyPanda · 07/08/2023 20:58

To be fair OP said they weren't English, and I suspect thinking of department store changing rooms as single-sex is a UK thing. I've lived in Germany, Sweden, and the Netherlands, and I don't think anyone would have batted an eyelid at the scenario described by OP. Expectations around everyday situations are different between cultures so I equally appreciate it's important to posters on here.

Show quote history

Really? I’ve lived in Germany, Italy, France and have now been settled in Belgium for the last 20 years. Men’s changing rooms and women’s changing rooms are very much the norm. Think you may be making things up to support your assumption.

MassiveWordSalad · 28/10/2023 23:51

A thread last posted in back in August resurrected to tell women they don't need single sex spaces. Rightio.

LadyOfTheWagon · 28/10/2023 23:46

Don't think I could get too annoyed about a guy entering an enclosed dressing room to help his partner tbh.

JFT · 28/10/2023 23:42

BillyNotQuiteNoMates · 27/10/2023 22:26

Given that my daughter has been abused by women in changing rooms, because she has short hair and wears joggers, in general I’d say that people should mind their own business. (Not particularly aimed at the OP but at those who think they deserve brownie points, but deciding who should or should not be allowed in certain areas, based on people appearance)

I used to have this issue when I was young, skinny, fit, also taller than average woman. I've had my hair short and long and unbelievably even when it was long, women used to yell at me for being in the women's loos. There wasn't even such a thing as trans issues in those days and unbelievably I don't even look masculine in any way -but- I used to do a job that I needed to wear workwear trousers and work boots. I took to wearing pink T-shirts and my hair in plaits but I'd still get yelled at!

As for changing rooms, I believe that maintaining women only changing is a huge issue that should be enshrined in law if necessary and that there should ideally be 'mens' and 'mixed' areas for everyone else.

JanesLittleGirl · 28/10/2023 23:23

BillyNotQuiteNoMates · 28/10/2023 22:20

😂😂😂😂
Yes, I’ve used public toilets
And as I’ve said, my DD has been abused for using ladies toilets.
Why is it any different for a woman to have to watch a child or shopping than for a man? Or why do you think they are more at risk from a man in a dress, than from a woman in the women’s toilets or a man in trousers in the gents toilets? Give your head a wobble.
Your argument makes no sense, has no logical basis and just smacks of over dramatic transphobia.

Where to start with this?

Your DD should not be abused for using ladies toilets. Another woman might question her but would be assured by her response. Anything else is wrong.

I don't know how many men take small kids shopping compared to the number of women but it won't be many. Those that do are not confined to cubicles and can park the pram behind them while they use a urinal.

I never mentioned risk. I believe that I am entitled to my dignity and privacy when using a public toilet.

StarlightLime · 28/10/2023 22:35

Men in women's spaces is a major problem for most women, @BillyNotQuiteNoMates
Your hilarity is quite disturbing.

BillyNotQuiteNoMates · 28/10/2023 22:30

I don’t find ACTUAL problems funny at all. I do however find over dramatised, ridiculous comments hilarious.

JanesLittleGirl · 28/10/2023 22:28

BillyNotQuiteNoMates · 28/10/2023 22:20

😂😂😂😂
Yes, I’ve used public toilets
And as I’ve said, my DD has been abused for using ladies toilets.
Why is it any different for a woman to have to watch a child or shopping than for a man? Or why do you think they are more at risk from a man in a dress, than from a woman in the women’s toilets or a man in trousers in the gents toilets? Give your head a wobble.
Your argument makes no sense, has no logical basis and just smacks of over dramatic transphobia.

Glad that you found women's problems so funny.

MrSand · 28/10/2023 22:24

Billy - why do think we have separate male and female public toilets?

BillyNotQuiteNoMates · 28/10/2023 22:20

😂😂😂😂
Yes, I’ve used public toilets
And as I’ve said, my DD has been abused for using ladies toilets.
Why is it any different for a woman to have to watch a child or shopping than for a man? Or why do you think they are more at risk from a man in a dress, than from a woman in the women’s toilets or a man in trousers in the gents toilets? Give your head a wobble.
Your argument makes no sense, has no logical basis and just smacks of over dramatic transphobia.

JanesLittleGirl · 28/10/2023 22:05

BillyNotQuiteNoMates · 28/10/2023 21:42

Have a piss and leave

Have you (and your DD) ever actually used a women's public toilet? Mostly we just go in for a pee but we also use them for a number of other biology associated reasons. Also, even when we are just having a pee, we have to worry about babies in prams or 4 year old kids or how to keep an eye on our shopping.

If you are a woman and have never had to think about any of this then you may want to review your priviliges.

ArthurbellaScott · 28/10/2023 22:02

BillyNotQuiteNoMates · 28/10/2023 21:42

Aggressive actions like confronting people who don’t meet their narrow minded stereotypes of what a man or woman SHOULD look like.

We should ignore masturbating men because it's none of our business and women shouldn't be 'aggressive'. Got it.

Stephannee · 28/10/2023 21:54

MadderthanMorris · 28/10/2023 21:49

So the man wasn't actually in the changing room; wasn't looking to enter surreptitiously but was being openly "beckoned" in by a woman; and you didn't actually chase him out of it, you prevented him from going in.

Yeah, the clickbait title had my hopes up but the actual content left me disappointed. It had me expecting a drama-filled coffeetime story.

HarrietJet · 28/10/2023 21:51

MadderthanMorris · 28/10/2023 21:49

So the man wasn't actually in the changing room; wasn't looking to enter surreptitiously but was being openly "beckoned" in by a woman; and you didn't actually chase him out of it, you prevented him from going in.

So what? The woman had no right to invite him into the female changing rooms. She doesn't get to decide that it's ok for every other woman in there.

MadderthanMorris · 28/10/2023 21:49

So the man wasn't actually in the changing room; wasn't looking to enter surreptitiously but was being openly "beckoned" in by a woman; and you didn't actually chase him out of it, you prevented him from going in.

BillyNotQuiteNoMates · 28/10/2023 21:42

Have a piss and leave

BillyNotQuiteNoMates · 28/10/2023 21:42

Aggressive actions like confronting people who don’t meet their narrow minded stereotypes of what a man or woman SHOULD look like.

ArthurbellaScott · 28/10/2023 20:55

BillyNotQuiteNoMates · 28/10/2023 20:23

Just use whichever toilet you want to use, or wait until you get home, and stop telling other people what they should do

What about when we meet a man masturbating in the ladies' toilet? What do we do then?

WickedSerious · 28/10/2023 20:32

BillyNotQuiteNoMates · 28/10/2023 20:27

I never thought my daughter would feel and be safer going into men’s toilets than women’s. Those people supporting these aggressive actions should be ashamed as yourselves.

Aggressive actions like expecting people to use the toilets that correspond to their biological sex.