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Original poster

I chased a man out of the changing rooms ----

315 replies

betterchange · 07/08/2023 18:08

M+S, ladies'underwear section. It's all cubicles and to be fair, nowhere does it say that it is a women-only changing room, but I think it's likely to be seen as such by most users since it's in the bra-and-knicker-selling section of the shop and there are other changing rooms elsewhere!

A woman came out of one of the changing rooms whilst I was queueing and beckoned a man in. I said, I'm sorry, I don't think you should go in there, this is for women trying on underwear. The woman queried this but I stuck to my guns and the woman behind me in the queue backed me up; the man apologised and left. (It probably helped that they sounded as though English wasn't their first language so they may not have known the "rules"! I think it was a genuine misreading/mistake on their part.)

Anyway, no harm done, but it made me think - that was easy, but if it had been a very obvious man-dressed-as-a-woman, I'm far from sure that I would have felt able to speak out.

In that situation (the man-dressed-as-woman), would anyone here have said anything?

OP posts:
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9
SuperNewMe · 07/08/2023 21:09

Waterlooville · 07/08/2023 21:02

My poor df struggled with this. My mum was very poorly and rapidly changing size due to her illness. She was too frail to manage without him. M and S told him he could accompany her. What should he have done? He's too old or set in his way to internet shop. If you think he should have bought several sizes and returned the ones that didn't fit you need to walk a day in his shoes. He was struggling enough without hysterical women harrasing him. The answer here as others have said is if you don't like the shop's policy don't use it. M&S usually have proper cubicles in the lingerie area, not curtains too.

Yes, you make a great point, sometimes someone might need help/ their carer with them. I'm willing to bet that people will completely ignore it thoughand just focus on the word hysterical instead

Waterlooville · 07/08/2023 21:02

My poor df struggled with this. My mum was very poorly and rapidly changing size due to her illness. She was too frail to manage without him. M and S told him he could accompany her. What should he have done? He's too old or set in his way to internet shop. If you think he should have bought several sizes and returned the ones that didn't fit you need to walk a day in his shoes. He was struggling enough without hysterical women harrasing him. The answer here as others have said is if you don't like the shop's policy don't use it. M&S usually have proper cubicles in the lingerie area, not curtains too.

SmileyClare · 07/08/2023 20:59

I’m not sure how a ban on trans women entering changing cubicles could be enforced.

A person’s sex is not easily determined on sight. Should any masculine looking woman be challenged?

GrumpyPanda · 07/08/2023 20:58

Restinggoddess · 07/08/2023 18:43

His Mrs should have known better - he was beckoned in, not many men ignore such request from their partners

Changing rooms should be better designed

To be fair OP said they weren't English, and I suspect thinking of department store changing rooms as single-sex is a UK thing. I've lived in Germany, Sweden, and the Netherlands, and I don't think anyone would have batted an eyelid at the scenario described by OP. Expectations around everyday situations are different between cultures so I equally appreciate it's important to posters on here.

User63847484848 · 07/08/2023 20:49

This would bother me because of the Curtains
i wish more changing rooms were proper cubicles with solid doors then tbh I don’t really care about the sex of the other people using them around me. Curtains that don’t close properly are a different matter.

GEC44 · 07/08/2023 20:48

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

@Holly60 why do you 'always want to laugh at fat or unattractive women' ?

SuperNewMe · 07/08/2023 20:47

QueenHippolyta · 07/08/2023 20:43

It's funny but why are you so keen to ensure men enjoy 'trans euphoria ' ( and I'm being polite here) in the Ladies' changing room instead of respecting young girls and women's boundaries?

Women don't fucking count when it gets in
the way of men's sexual needs.

Show quote history

It's funny, but how you seemingly don't have a problem with someone on this thread sneering at "fat unattractive" women in the ladies changing rooms but you do seem to have one with a hypothetical trans woman being there who wasmt even in there in the first place.

GEC44 · 07/08/2023 20:46

PinkTonic · 07/08/2023 18:40

Well done. I wish I had spoken up recently in M&S when a bloke was sitting in the middle of the women’s changing room on a sofa whilst his wife or partner kept coming out to show him, discussing the pros and cons of this style in that colour and should she ask if they could order it and blah blah blah. I wanted to scream at the pair of them, him to fuck off out and her to grow up and act like an actual autonomous human with her own brain cells.

@PinkTonic it is possible that this is an abusive relationship/marriage and he was insisting that she shows him everything she tries on.

ZeldaFighter · 07/08/2023 20:46

I guess middle-aged men who like wearing women's (their mother's?) underwear are probably the customer cohort keeping them in business.

ZeldaFighter · 07/08/2023 20:44

GCWorkNightmare · 07/08/2023 19:33

It’s not a mistake. Men are welcome in the lingerie changing rooms at M+S. I’ve boycotted them ever since they started it.

check out the moderated reviews on women’s underwear on their site —if you want to see your lunch again—. Men in women’s clothing is exactly what M+S wants.

Show quote history

Didn't believe you. Picked a random pair of knickers.

First review:

Very Nice Knickers, great colours!

JiCoHerts
July 2023
Yes, I recommend this
Love the Cleo range of knickers, these are such great value for monies. Love the colours too. They are a great choice for guys who prefer women’s knickers over boring men’s pants. Nice stretchy lace panel in the front to hide our modesty.

SuperNewMe · 07/08/2023 20:44

GCWorkNightmare · 07/08/2023 20:00

Google “Primark porn” and see if it changes your mind.

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You might be in the habit of googling unknown porn but I'm not.

JellySaurus · 07/08/2023 20:44

More manipulation of facts to suit an argument. Trans people aren’t anything to do with this situation, and yet…

They are everything to do with this situation.

If a man should not be in the changing rooms assigned to women, or the changing rooms within the women's lingerie department, why should any other adult human male be allowed in?

If a transwoman is allowed in the changing rooms assigned to women, or the changing rooms within the women's lingerie department, why shouldn't any other man be allowed in?

Women have the right to privacy, security and dignity.

QueenHippolyta · 07/08/2023 20:43

SuperNewMe · 07/08/2023 20:39

It's funny because I always want to laugh at fat or unattractive women - I try not to though.”

I'd much rather be in a changing room with a trans woman than a woman (which you presumably are) with a stinking, sneering judgemental attitude like yours (regardless of if you're trying to hide your smirks)

It's funny but why are you so keen to ensure men enjoy 'trans euphoria ' ( and I'm being polite here) in the Ladies' changing room instead of respecting young girls and women's boundaries?

Women don't fucking count when it gets in
the way of men's sexual needs.

JellySaurus · 07/08/2023 20:39

Glenthebattleostrich · 07/08/2023 19:45

I asked an obvious (bald, no attempt at. a wig) man in women's clothing (black skirt, pussy bow blouse and mary jane shoes) to leave the women's toilet in my local cinema.

He said 'i'm just as entitled to be here as you, I identify as a woman'. I responded with I may identify as a supermodel but in reality I'm a fat middle aged perimenopausal woman. Now leave.

He and his companion were not amused but I stood firm and asked why his feelings were more valid than mine. He left and as I was walking out was in conversation with the management. I followed up with an email but haven't heard anything back.

Good for you!

It takes courage to speak up in these situations. If an adult human male thinks he has the right to go into places where women can reasonably expect to be among only women, who knows what else he may think he has the right to do? Shout? Assault? It's this fear, together with our socially indoctrinated worry about offending, which keeps women silent. A silence that these invaders take as acceptance.

SuperNewMe · 07/08/2023 20:39

It's funny because I always want to laugh at fat or unattractive women - I try not to though.”

I'd much rather be in a changing room with a trans woman than a woman (which you presumably are) with a stinking, sneering judgemental attitude like yours (regardless of if you're trying to hide your smirks)

Chuffaluffa · 07/08/2023 20:37

SuperNewMe · 07/08/2023 20:35

Exactly, there wasn't anyone who was trans present.
Nothing to do with them. Yet still it's blown into "trans people in changing rooms! Would you chase them out, look at me, I challenged a man in there!"
Er, go you?

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yep this. More manipulation of facts to suit an argument. Trans people aren’t anything to do with this situation, and yet…

SuperNewMe · 07/08/2023 20:35

EcoChica1980 · 07/08/2023 20:30

You’ve conflated this situation with cases of trans women using single sex spaces but they are very different. I don’t really see why you’ve connected them like this.

This was clearly the male partner of a woman who beckoned him into the changing room to give his opinion. You didn’t like it, nor did one other woman present, but other women might not have a problem (presuming everyone was behind curtain while trying things on).

Full disclosure - I probably agree with you about the trans stuff, but why turn an innocuous, everyday situation into episode of the trans war?

Exactly, there wasn't anyone who was trans present.
Nothing to do with them. Yet still it's blown into "trans people in changing rooms! Would you chase them out, look at me, I challenged a man in there!"
Er, go you?

LuckySantangelo35 · 07/08/2023 20:33

askmenow · 07/08/2023 19:58

In this censorious day and age the OP is a heroine!

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@Sux2buthen

she totally is a heroine

LuckySantangelo35 · 07/08/2023 20:31

@Holly60

“It's funny because I always want to laugh at fat or unattractive women - I try not to though.”

wtf?!

EcoChica1980 · 07/08/2023 20:30

You’ve conflated this situation with cases of trans women using single sex spaces but they are very different. I don’t really see why you’ve connected them like this.

This was clearly the male partner of a woman who beckoned him into the changing room to give his opinion. You didn’t like it, nor did one other woman present, but other women might not have a problem (presuming everyone was behind curtain while trying things on).

Full disclosure - I probably agree with you about the trans stuff, but why turn an innocuous, everyday situation into episode of the trans war?

Needmoresleep · 07/08/2023 20:30

Beelezebub · 07/08/2023 19:09

What the ever living fuck…? The depths that some men will sink to never fails to dismay me.

Show quote history

It was on the M&S website.

Customer reviews of various styles of underwear. Lots of pervy men posting. I think there were complaints toM&S but they chose to leave them there.

I haven't checked since, but have stopped shopping in M&S. They need to get their changing rooms sorted. I assume the same men go into physical stores.

itsmylife7 · 07/08/2023 20:30

I'd back any woman if I was present and this happened.

I'd also definitely say something if a man entered the underwear dressing rooms.

I've discovered my inner Tiger since reading this particular section of MN.

Thank you ladies 😉

Flossflower · 07/08/2023 20:28

NeverTrustAPoliceman · 07/08/2023 19:52

The thing to do is pick a selection of clothes from around the store, the further apart the better. Go to the changing room and ask if they can guarantee there will be no men in there. If they can't, say you are not prepared to go in and drop the clothes on the floor. If hundreds of women did that on one Saturday afternoon it would make a point.

NB I have no problem about dropping clothes on the floor since I saw a dog pee on a rail of trousers... They need to sort out their dog policy as well as their man policy.

You can’t take your dog into M and S

JudgeRudy · 07/08/2023 20:20

betterchange · 07/08/2023 18:08

M+S, ladies'underwear section. It's all cubicles and to be fair, nowhere does it say that it is a women-only changing room, but I think it's likely to be seen as such by most users since it's in the bra-and-knicker-selling section of the shop and there are other changing rooms elsewhere!

A woman came out of one of the changing rooms whilst I was queueing and beckoned a man in. I said, I'm sorry, I don't think you should go in there, this is for women trying on underwear. The woman queried this but I stuck to my guns and the woman behind me in the queue backed me up; the man apologised and left. (It probably helped that they sounded as though English wasn't their first language so they may not have known the "rules"! I think it was a genuine misreading/mistake on their part.)

Anyway, no harm done, but it made me think - that was easy, but if it had been a very obvious man-dressed-as-a-woman, I'm far from sure that I would have felt able to speak out.

In that situation (the man-dressed-as-woman), would anyone here have said anything?

Is it open plan or cubicles? It really wouldn't bother me if it was cubicles. If it was open plan I'd be inlikelu to use it. I feel the samecabout toilets. If they have a door I really don't care who's in the next cubicle.
You weren't unreasonable to ask him if he minded waiting till you had finished but if it's unisex I don't really think you get to decide who uses M&Ss changing rooms.
I can kind of accept that eg if you were using a train station toilet late at night you might feel vulnerable but (being genuine here) what was your fear? It wasn't even a solo man, it was someone's OH? I'd really be interested to know.
If it was a trans woman I'd feel just the same. It's busy mums with under 4s I can't stand. Many a time I've had to raise my voice at an unruly child poking their head/hands under my cubicles. I guess the answer is to have proper cubicles with lockable doors and no 6 inch gap....for anyone to use

Nodeepdiving · 07/08/2023 20:12

Scousemousey · 07/08/2023 18:39

I am dreading the day I am faced with this sort of situation. Whenever we travel, I expect it to happen in an airport,but so far so good.

Apart from anything else, I struggle to keep a straight face sometimes, and worry about laughing and giving offence unintentionally. I can't be the only one, surely?

Funny you should say that, the only time I have ever knowingly seen a man (a transwoman who looked reasonably convincing) in the ladies' was at an airport. I didn't say anything, for all sorts of reasons, but I'm ashamed to admit that not wanting to cause offense and make a scene featured higher on the list than it should have.

Having seen a post on a Facebook group where a woman was asking for advice on how to explain the presence of a man (transwoman) dressed in a mini skirt, heels and fishnets in the ladies' toilets at a softplay on a Sunday morning to her preschool children, I am not holding my breath about the presence of men in women's places being called out... Posters were falling over themselves to praise the fact that this person was there. It did not seem to occur to anyone that any person wearing sexy clothing at a kids' venue might have nefarious intentions... Scary!