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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Public NHS consultation on puberty blockers open

103 replies

WarriorN · 03/08/2023 17:49

www.engage.england.nhs.uk/consultation/puberty-suppressing-hormones/

NHS England commissions gender incongruence and dysphoria services and the purpose of this consultation is to seek views on a proposed interim clinical policy on puberty suppressing hormones (sometimes referred to as ‘puberty blockers’ or ‘hormone blockers’) for children and adolescents who have gender incongruence or dysphoria.

The policy proposition is that puberty suppressing hormones are not recommended to be available as a routine commissioning option for the treatment of children and adolescents who have gender incongruence or dysphoria.

This public consultation will run for 90 days from 3 August to 1 November 2023.

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WarriorN · 04/08/2023 11:48

A significant issue is that CAHMS is really stretched already.

Anecdotally, a parent who is a Gp I know said no Gp at the practice wants to touch anything relating to transgender medicine with a barge pole. They had to do some training and they've basically done the scheduled version of flipping a coin.

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WarriorN · 04/08/2023 11:43

It illustrates the absolute mess of referrals and loopholes of the current/ previous system

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WarriorN · 04/08/2023 11:43

Her synopsis:

"First of all, a proposed change to who can refer into the specialist gender service for children and adolescents.

In older service, most referrals came from GPs, some from CAMHS, some from charities supporting trans youth.

In the new proposal, GPs cannot refer to the specialist gender service.

GPs instead have to refer to secondary care (pediatrics or mental health), and only secondary care can make a referral to the specialist gender service.

The GPs have to deem the child sufficiently distressed to be worthy of a referral to secondary mental health services (role of pediatrics is unclear - they have not dealt with trans kids before in the UK system).

So happy trans kids can't get into the system

Everyone knows the severe pressures that child and adolescent mental health services are under in the UK.

Now all trans kids are forced through secondary care - delaying trans kids getting care & increasing delays for kids (cis or trans) in need of mental health support.

So now, to even get to the specialist gender service, a child has to persuade their parent (usually), their GP, AND a secondary health professional to do those referrals.

Sounds impossible doesn't it!

That is BEFORE whatever hurdles will be within the gender service, which is before hurdles in endocrinology.

Good job trans adolescent healthcare isn't time sensitive hey!

In the old system there was the ability of direct referrals from places like trans support charities.

This route was not commonly used, but was particularly important when trans children had a transphobic GP who refused to refer for ideological reasons.

The new system has no such plans in place for supporting trans child's right to access care.

There is no clear recourse if their GP or secondary healthcare professional is transphobic.

We KNOW that transphobic prejudice exists. This new NHS policy does not care.

The second policy out for consultation today, as was predicted from early documents, states that puberty blockers will only be prescribed under a research protocol.

I've written about this before and haven't got the spoons to say much right now

Headline problems with it include:

  1. It involves coercing children into research to receive healthcare. Research coercion is bad. It cannot entail informed consent. It is deeply unethical. And it will distort and make meaningless research findings.
  1. It means that access to puberty blockers can be outright denied based on who they define as 'eligible' under their 'research protocols'.

This is an untransparent way of denying healthcare that I expect to see in practice (whilst the NHS denies is happening in policy).

I have more to say, but not today.

The NHS (NHS England) continues to be an acute threat to trans children's rights, well-being, autonomy and happiness."

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BonfireLady · 04/08/2023 11:40

WarriorN · 04/08/2023 10:55

Gender variant behaviours may start between ages 3 and 5 years

So basically kids who don't conform to marketed stereotypes will be eligible for medication to make them fit sexist and homophobic consumer ideas.

Angry

Exactly. I felt incensed when I read that. Especially coupled with the WHO definition of gender in the same paragraph.

WarriorN · 04/08/2023 11:37

Brief look at how it's been received by TRAs: Horton did her PhD under Anna Carlisle at Goldsmiths (who attended the TRA meeting TheHarpySings did an expose of TRAs "we're still here," in 2018.)

Horton and Carlise have children who are described as trans and I believe Horton did her PhD on child trans inclusion in primary schools, or has at least written a paper I've seen.

twitter.com/fiercemum/status/1687093040161361920?s=46&t=A2fpFNgDRyXF2d6ye97wEA

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ArabeIIaScott · 04/08/2023 11:18

Moanthensmum · 04/08/2023 10:56

Can I just say in relation to this I'm actually getting really really down about what's happening in Scotland. I'm so anxious now and worried about it all since I started looking into this. The NHS in Scotland has basically just approved a process to essentially remove all safeguarding, counselling etc and will be cracking on with irreversible surgery and blockers on any vulnerable young person that asks for it. I wish there was a consultation for us up here too; hopefully this English consultation will actually put some safeguarding measures in place.

Sandyford is still continuing on happily despite the Cass review and tavistock scandal investigated by that Newsnight journalist.

To clarify that, they have not approved that process/adoption of the SPATH guidelines, the CMO has approved accepting that proposal for consideration. Consultation towards the end of the year. Discussion here, with link to Express article and govt comment:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4862889-spath-scottish-government-treatment-protocol-for-trans-care-counter-to-cass?page=4&reply=128136348

Page 4 | SPATH - Scottish government treatment protocol for trans care counter to Cass | Mumsnet

This looks highly alarming. [[https://twitter.com/CanSG_org/status/1686645272129011712 https://twitter.com/CanSG_org/status/1686645272129011712]] '...

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4862889-spath-scottish-government-treatment-protocol-for-trans-care-counter-to-cass?page=4&reply=128136348

rogdmum · 04/08/2023 11:16

Moansthensmum there is going to be a consultation on the Scottish standards. It was supposed rot be underway just now but is currently expected to be held this winter.

Moanthensmum · 04/08/2023 10:56

Can I just say in relation to this I'm actually getting really really down about what's happening in Scotland. I'm so anxious now and worried about it all since I started looking into this. The NHS in Scotland has basically just approved a process to essentially remove all safeguarding, counselling etc and will be cracking on with irreversible surgery and blockers on any vulnerable young person that asks for it. I wish there was a consultation for us up here too; hopefully this English consultation will actually put some safeguarding measures in place.

Sandyford is still continuing on happily despite the Cass review and tavistock scandal investigated by that Newsnight journalist.

WarriorN · 04/08/2023 10:55

Gender variant behaviours may start between ages 3 and 5 years

So basically kids who don't conform to marketed stereotypes will be eligible for medication to make them fit sexist and homophobic consumer ideas.

Angry
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SquirrelSoShiny · 04/08/2023 10:53

I want to celebrate if the wheels are finally coming off this wrecking machine but I could weep for the children and autistic adults whose lives and health have been destroyed by this ideology. The families divided, the estrangements. The absolute abhorrent waste of public money.

WarriorN · 04/08/2023 10:43

Ritchie's judicial review announcement due son, either this Sunday or next.

(I'm guessing in Sunday times? Or observer?)

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WarriorN · 04/08/2023 10:40

over 16s will not have pbs and go straight to x sex hormones as will enter adult services at 16.

The study for puberty blockers will be on around 6000 children planned for 2024. I imagine younger teens.

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BonfireLady · 04/08/2023 10:10

This is in the Interim Policy document.

BonfireLady · 04/08/2023 10:09

WarriorN · 04/08/2023 07:10

From discussions elsewhere, the devil is in the detail.

I believe there are a number of issues with some of the proposals.

All the accompanying documents need analysing.

I hope some orgs release some guidance on what it all means in practise.

Yes, I'm finding quite a few issues so far. To pick one out as an example:

"Gender" is a belief, not a fact. The wording in the policy documents fails to acknowledge this. For example, quoting:

"Gender variant behaviours may start between ages 3 and 5 years, the same age at which most typically developing children begin showing gendered behaviours and interests (Fast et al, 2018)."

"Gender refers to the roles, behaviours, activities, attributes and opportunities that any society considers appropriate for girls and boys, and women and men" source: WHO website.

It should be clearly stated that this means people are being treated to change their physical bodies to address the psychological distress associated with not matching sex-based stereotypes. A wider review should consider whether this is a mental health issue and should go through the mental health treatment pathway.

WarriorN · 04/08/2023 09:04

The other aspect is that it may highlight that there isn't any evidence for efficacy to more people generally hence the need for the study. That actually may put some off.

There are a lot of online popular culture myths about it always seems that they're reversible, safe etc

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WarriorN · 04/08/2023 09:01

One of the biggest things missing from all this is longitudal follow ups.

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PermanentTemporary · 04/08/2023 07:54

It is also possible that this research will provide evidence that the treatment is effective and beneficial, at least to a selected group. I just hope the measurements used are robust.

PriOn1 · 04/08/2023 07:29

It strikes me that this particular consultation has the potential to be important, given the known shortcomings and failure to carry out longer term patient monitoring.

If there are patients or parents who are unhappy, but have never had the chance to have their voices heard, then this is an opportunity to speak out.

WiseUpJanetWeiss · 04/08/2023 07:26

WarriorN · 04/08/2023 07:13

I haven't the time to clarify details but it seems there's plans for a study on children, which does mean there will be a large group allowed to go on pbs for research purposes. As in several thousand.

A research study would have to be conducted as a proper clinical trial with ethics approval, and with strict criteria and proper consent before recruitment - assuming it gets ethics approval...

I still don’t like it of course, but it is progress.

PermanentTemporary · 04/08/2023 07:23

That's interesting and a huge relief given the impact of these drugs stopping children's normal development. The idea that this could ever have been an ok thing to do just to 'give a child time' was always extreme even if 90% of those taking them desisted, which if course they didn't.

NK's take on research trials, that it's an ethical minefield to restrict experimental treatment to a trial because it forces patients to agree to research, is completely arse-backwards. This is experimental treatment, still, with a poor evidence base. Any child taking these extreme drugs and having their puberty halted should be under the closest scrutiny and she had the opportunity to fight for that. Her failure to advocate for the true interests of those children shows how it has been adult perspectives driving this pathway despite the increasing number of children affected.

WarriorN · 04/08/2023 07:14

From age 16 children will be into adult services.

Ritchie's case will be really important for that.

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WarriorN · 04/08/2023 07:13

I haven't the time to clarify details but it seems there's plans for a study on children, which does mean there will be a large group allowed to go on pbs for research purposes. As in several thousand.

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WarriorN · 04/08/2023 07:11

Excellent news @ResisterRex!

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WarriorN · 04/08/2023 07:10

From discussions elsewhere, the devil is in the detail.

I believe there are a number of issues with some of the proposals.

All the accompanying documents need analysing.

I hope some orgs release some guidance on what it all means in practise.

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