Transwomen v. deceptive men are a threat

How can anyone possibly make the distinction? How do we know that Isla Bryson is pretending ("at it" to use the Scottish first minister's phrase) rather than genuinely trans?

It doesn't matter anyway. I'm no more inclined to allow Paris Lees into a women's changing room/prison/domestic refuge than I am Bryson or Karen White.

Yes the issue is that some men will go to extraordinary levels to abuse people. We only need to look at men who have gone through years of training and building entirely fake personas and interests in order to get into religious communities, schools, medical institutions....... to know this.

It is not even hard work to utter the words 'I identify as a woman' while looking and dressing in typically male presenting ways so of course it is a loophole that abusive men will exploit.

The problem is that we have no way of knowing if the male in a dress or just saying the words really is gender dysphoric or if they just want to be close to women and children in a vulnerable state.

So we put in place safeguarding measures, we run CRB checks for employment in schools etc, we segregate some services and facilities for females only.

It's a simple concept and over ruling or twisting it does negate safeguarding measures and does mean that the people those measures were put in place for are less safe.

Most transwomen are not a threat.
Most men are not a threat.
Most women are not a threat.

Some people are dangerous, abusive and predatory. Statistically the vast majority of dangerous, abusive and predatory people are male. Historically, dangerous, abusive and predatory people have gone to enormous lengths to get themselves into a position of trust in order to exploit the vulnerable.

When rules are made to keep people safe, it is always the case that the vast majority of people who are prevented from doing something they would otherwise have done, had no malicious intent and would not have done anything wrong. This is normal and expected.

Because there is no way to independently verify the emotions, thoughts or soul of a clearly male person who says they are a woman, there is no way to tell the difference between a harmless transwoman and a predator who is trying to bypass a restriction in order to further their predatory behaviour. The fact that harmless people vastly outnumber predators is irrelevant. There is no acceptable number of predators who should be allowed to operate unchallenged in order to not hurt a transwoman's feelings. If there is any situation where men are barred, then all transwomen need to be barred too.

It is quite right and proper that thought should go into deciding whether a bar for all males is appropriate, but if it is then there shouldn't be exceptions for men who are presenting according to feminine-coded ideas.

I don't like this argument about deceptive men because it is based on the idea that there are genuine transwomen (the ones who 'only want to pee') and then there are the predatory men who are pretending, and that these are two distinct groups. I think the reality is much messier and blurrier than that.

I don't trust anyone with XY chromosomes. Never have. Never will.

I think if they were genuinely trans I would mind them in the female toilet but I'm not ok with AGP or preditory men who pretend and as there is no way to tell I think it should be a blanket "no". I'm also aware even if I'm not that bothered others are and I absolutely do not have the right to give away that safe space.

But when you add prison where you need to sleep and shower with male people if they say they are women? I'm not ok with that. Same for female hospital wards.

Add sport? Grants etc for women in all areas?

Men saying they are women and swaying the stats on equality at work? Crime statistics?

Then when you consider normalising this for adults leads/has lead to what is happening on our children?

It's not really about wether some men are safe or who is genuine or not. It's about the societal attitudes to women, our rights our protections and opportunities. Our safety from the pretenders really is just the most obvious part

This whole "deceptive men" argument is a red herring. It isn't my issue.

The "men" issue is my issue.

I think this argument gathered pace because people could say it's not about you (the TW they are talking to), it's about them over there.

For me it was always about all men.

It's the thing we're not allowed to say out loud, ignoring decades of evidence, safeguarding training and serious case reviews showing abusive men will exploit any loophole.