Transwomen v. deceptive men are a threat

I understand IamaRevenant how difficult it can be. I have a brother who was swiftly whooshed through full surgery as soon as a mental confusion arose. He claims womanhood and I use his chosen name but not female pronouns. It helps that his new name is used for both sexes, that does make it easier. And that we live many miles apart.

Reassure your neighbour that misgendering is NOT a hate crime. The GRC (if he has one) is an understanding between the government and the GRC holder. Individuals are not required to get involved in the falsehood.

I agree with you, thank you for pointing this out. I do use chosen pronouns usually as I have a couple of transwoman friends who have lived as women their entire adult life and I respect them (they are similar to the kind of transwomen referred to by @Bovrilla, very respectful of women's spaces etc and generally just living a quiet life bothering nobody). But I don't respect him whatsoever and he is a predator. So him it is.

Although the last time someone called him that to his face (another neighbour, again one he's targeted as she's bi so apparently owes him sex) he called the police and reported her for a hate crime 🙄

There's no such thing as a full transition. Its impossible to transition to be the opposite sex, making distinctions between no, partial and full transition is meaningless. A man is a man regardless of what he does to his body.

Those who have undergone full transition, hormonal and physical, have done so as they do not want to be associated with male violence.

It would be unethical for the medical profession to give drugs and surgery to men for that reason.

Well this.

We have safe spaces because men are a threat. So all men are out, no exceptions.

You know, ‘non-acceptance without exception’.

That is the basic and necessary safeguarding principle of single sex spaces.

Most people don't murder other people, but there's a law against murder

Most people don't steal from other people, but there's a law against stealing

Most people don'd evade paying their taxes, but there's a law against tax evasion

The laws are there to protect the majority from the minority - do you get my drift....?

I don't want any man at all in my single sex spaces.

This is not so much because I feel under threat (although that danger is of course there), more that I simply like having a break from men: the way they change a dynamic, the male gaze, and the way they take up physical and metaphorical space differently than women.

We can't read minds - no-one can. Its impossible to tell the difference between Bob the axe-murderer and Bob the pacifist who fosters injured kittens. Its also impossible to tell the difference between a man pretending to be a woman and a man pretending to pretend to be a woman and its silly to try.

I think part of the issue is some men get quite sensitive to women talking about male violence etc because they feel they as individuals are being unfairly judged. But it isn't that all men are bad. Its just that it isn't possible, on meeting a stranger, to read their minds - all you can go of is how they act (are they impinging on my personal space, trying to corner me, following me into the toilets etc). Most men, at least when they have daughter, do realise this so they know really. If we were saying many men are violent so we should be allowed to shoot them that would be crazy. But its perfectly reasonable to say - many men are violent/dangerous we should be allowed to take steps to make ourselves safe. Only males that don't want women to be safe would object. And those males (be they trans or otherwise) are not good people

He's a predatory bloke. Don't take women's words and apply them to a man who you admit is a male, and a threat to women.

Edited to say this comment is for IamaRevenant

It's like the whole man Vs bear debate. We all know we choose the bear because we know what we're getting into with a bear etc.

There's a core of amazing transwomen who are sensitive to women, who use the disabled loo etc as they hate the idea of alienating the people they want to assimilate with. Who can and do have nuanced debate, understanding of many women's position and view and are willing to talk and engage with it (I'm thinking her of Alexis Evans etc). They must get so exasperated by the fact their more reasoned voices are incessantly drowned out by the TRAs.

Totally disagree. Those who have undergone full transition, hormonal and physical, have done so as they do not want to be associated with male violence. They suffer terribly because of the behaviour, beliefs and attitudes, including violence towards them- of men who 'pretend', for all the wrong reasons, it seems.

My neighbour is a threat and a fraud for sure. Holding 'pyjama parties', 'accidentally' booking a double room instead of two separate rooms on a trip with a female friend to 'see what happens', asking me and DH to leave them alone with our friend when she was drunk so they could take advantage. Amongst other things.

I have genuinely trans friends and family members so no underlying issue with people being trans so long as they don't encroach on women's prisons/hospital wards/sports. I honestly do think my neighbour is faking this to try and guilt women into having sex with them. She's a predatory bloke with a beard in a dress and a 'lady penis' (her words) so far as I'm concerned. She frequently rants to me that nobody wants to be with her and they're transphobes because they won't.

Unfortunately I have to walk past her door whenever I leave my flat so the rants just go on and on.

Isn't one reason why would-be trans women want to go into the ladies because they have been told to "live as a woman" in order to qualify for medication/ surgery / a GRC? And the reality is that using the ladies loos is one of the few characteristics of living as a woman.

This ^

By saying that anyone that is trans is trans means that they can't say those that they don't like are not trans.

But then logic has never stopped them from changing the definition of things and people.

I get what you mean but with single sex it’s just down to privacy, dignity and safety for me

And allowing any male is the issue

This sums up my issues with the trans agenda. They are obsessed with gender stereotypes, and rather than making a more equal society, this thinking divides and separates men and women even more. To define us by our clothes, choices, interests, hair length and 'feelings' undoes decades of equality campaigning and reduces us all to stereotypes.

Bloody excellent thread.

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 Well said

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

I agree.

TRA will always paint the GC position as being totally ridiculous.
We're "trying to deny the existence of trans people"
We're "calling trans women sex pests and predators"
We're "hostile and threatening to gender non conforming women"
We therefore "should die in a grease fire/choke on dick etc etc"

We can't really have reasonable discussion with that level of disingenuousness

Basically this post said it better than me!

Quite. If you respect transgender people and the concept of transition then it is necessary that you respect someone is who they say they are without it being relevant what crimes they may have committed, or any other aspect. You cannot say to someone that they may not transition because of reasons, but others can.

And equally, you cannot permit dangerous biological males who predate upon women into women's spaces where they are vulnerable, whether or not those males have transitioned.

Transitioning does not change or end the behaviours of a male who is predatory, as was clearly known even before the infamous names and the trail of women harmed by self ID.

And equally, if you respect women and see them as equal humans to male transitioners, you cannot provide inclusion for any male people into female spaces, while then excluding female people from the female space and therefore any space at all, if those female people are of the vulnerable groups who cannot use mixed sex spaces. It makes no difference how lovely or safe those male people are: those female people lose everything to provide those male people with more freedom of choice and comfort. That's basic discrimination and unacceptable inequality, it is wrong.

The obvious answer is that anyone can obviously and rightfully transition as they want to and without restriction. And that third spaces are created, and male and female people can choose between their sex based spaces and the mixed sex/gender neutral space depending on their personal access needs. Women using a mixed sex space are therefore willingly consenting to use a mixed sex space and accepting and consenting to the risks involved.

It will require firm boundaries and probably an awareness raising campaign that for male people to invade a female only provided space or resource is an act of aggression and exclusion that will not be tolerated, and that they are required to respect female needs, access and equality in the same way that they require their own to be respected. They cannot remove resources or access from women for no other reason than wanting to, or the thought of a women's facility they cannot use being threatening to their sense of identity. They may need help with that, but the answer cannot be that women just suck up being subhuman.

There isn't really any such thing as "genuinely" trans. Trans means anyone who says they are - it's an indefinable feeling and there is no "test" for it.

This is the problem with self-id. A male who says they are a female isn't somehow more female if they genuinely hold beliefs that having certain personality traits makes you female, or think the right things, or say the right words.

You could argue that having or not having certain body parts makes you more female, but that doesn't really apply to self-id.

How do you tell the difference?

What about Karen White and Katie Dolotowski? Are they pretending too? Who is to tell a transitioner whether or not they are genuine, or prevent either of those two serious sex offenders from presenting as women and walking into women's spaces? Incidentally both of them used their access to women's spaces to assault women and young girls, White left a woman so seriously injured from multiple rapes she may never have children.

If a genuine transwoman is also a rapist, what should happen?

And whether transwomen are sincere in their transition or not, what do we do about this large group of vulnerable women excluded from any access at all to provide these male people with their preferred choice from all the facilities?