This is outrageous - medical paper argues that wanting healthy, undeformed babies should be "queered"

I thought that too. My son suffered from that - now sadly passed away

Would a child whose mother has deliberately taken drugs resulting in abnormality have a case (or the state representing them) against the parent?

The mendacious glomming on to anything that only women have (like PCOS) to present it as an ‘anyone’ thing, no longer a female thing, just shows how they view anything female as a blank canvas to occupy if it suits them.

Sally Hines is one of the authors.

Vile woman. So much for 'be kind'.

PCOS affects the ovaries. Which only women have.

The sheer stupidity and offensiveness on this issue is unbelievable.

It’s part of Stonewall’s campaign strategy. Stonewall are promoting use of the outdated and inaccurate term “intersex” and using it in the same breath as “non binary”.

The reason they are doing this is to:

• create the false impression that there is a third sex;
• make a link in people’s minds between that (false) idea of there being a third sex with the concept of being ‘non-binary’;
• play on the natural sympathy which most people will feel for individuals with a DSD and seek to apply that same sympathy to individuals wanting to be awarded special status and support on the grounds of the fashion choices they make and internal view of themselves;
• argue that single-sex spaces are exclusionary of these Very Special non-binary individuals and therefore all facilities must be “gender neutral” which Stonewall will never be truthful enough to describe as mixed sex.

It’s just another of their “sleight of hand” / “wedge issue” / “small step” tactics in their toolbox.

From what I've seen of it, it's a mix of the whole 'sex is a spectrum' bullshit promoted by very dubious researchers and a group of 'not like other girls' navel gazers who have realised that non binary identities don't have quite the same cachet anymore so have decided to use their not a DSD condition to identify under the umbrella. It's incredibly insulting to those who do have DSD's.

Verity (the main PCOS charity in the UK) have already had to make statements to make it clear that PCOS is not considered an 'intersex' condition.

There is an absolute glut of this kind of guff.

Makes it extremely time consuming to find factual, medical information as first you have to discount paper after paper that looks to be on the subject but is really about ‘normativity’ and ‘inclusion’ and ‘queering’.

Why are they discussing medical issues and dismissing tetratogenicity so easily then? They should stay in their lane.

It is thought provoking. But the thoughts provoked in me are more around what sort of idiots are these authors? Where does this rank on the Sally Hines Batshit Crazy Scale (tough call)?

More specifically, why are they so happy to dismiss WPATH’s recommendation on avoiding testosterone in pregnancy, one of the few sensible things to come out of SOC8, “due to lack of evidence” but these same people are all for the rest of SOC8’s recommendations for medicalising children despite an actual lack of evidence?

It sounds like the sort of piss -take academic papaer that Peter Boghassian would have produced in order to show up the vacuity and ridiculousness of wokeist academia.

Queer theory really is all about narcissitic self entitlement.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/04/arts/academic-journals-hoax.html

Sociologists shouldn't be trying to make clever points, playing Devils Advocate. If they wanted to make a point about societies attitudes towards disabled people or pregnant women, there were better ways than this.

Human experimentation on a fetus is illegal. It should be illegal, and anything that serves to undermine that is unethical.

Elsevier does not solely publish medical research.

I really recommend reading the full paper. It's both thoughtful and very thought provoking. Please note, sociological research (which this is) does not claim to be medical research.

Please for the love of god someone explain to me how they have managed to turn PCOS into a so-called ‘intersex’ condition? Did some stupid researcher (or one with an agenda) decide to lump PCOS in with DSDs or did the trans lobby come up with it themselves?

Feel bad for that gp!
Wow! The mum was 30. And it says he said 'if' mum had a good diet. Maybe she didnt.
the only way for gp to cover for this would be to test womens levels.
if anything it is a failing of both common knowledge and general public health info.
one would hope now women just pop into boots.
also it can sometimes be seen on a scan. The question would be of the mum would have aborted.
there was no need for her to have seen a gp anyway (presumably)
otherwose a low dose constant dose shoukd be reommended from age 13 for women

Exactly.

lots of women of reproductive age take teratogenic medications but their prescribing specialists are incredibly cautious and often prescribe a long-term contraceptive at the same time, so as to minimise the risk of unplanned pregnancy. If the woman wants to try for a baby she has to have a supervised medication change first (eg certain epilepsy medications).

FWIW I do know of some NHS endocrinologists who only prescribe Testosterone to transmen who date men on the same basis - a long term contraceptive must be used in tandem.

It’s completely ludicrous to suggest transmen should be held to a lower standard re: avoidance of foetal harm than other women.
It’s all very well to argue a transman should be able to alter her body via informed consent but as her baby is unable to consent to the associated intrauterine harms that argument becomes irrelevant.

I’ve had a pharmacist refuse to give me antibiotics for an ear infection because I was breastfeeding (and the GP had already checked the reference book and concluded the benefit was greater than the risk)

I hope so. But it will be too late for those participants in this horrible experiment.

The authors of the Reality's Last Stand piece got it spot on: "This is, quite frankly, insane".

Calling anyone intersex is rude.

Yeah, I’m not on other social media, apart from FB, so I don’t know half of the madness out there.

No one thinks women with PCOS are intersex apart from a few outre trans provocateurs with large-ish online followings.

As a rule we should never underestimate just how many of the more ridiculous ideas about transgerderism come from unqualified but popular online influencers. This is where neopronouns come from. And the idea that trans children are doomed to suicide without 'intervention'.

That would be fine as long as it stayed on social media but the alarming thing is thast a lot of these silly ideas then get adopted by institutions such as the NHS, which then offers them a false legitimacy. Until some brave GC person digs a bit and the idea is inevitably found to be based on shifting sand.

In 50 years, when the transgender medical scandal is written about by medical journals, I think it will be seen more as a function of social media and the unquestioning acceptance of social media opinions by qualified professionals who should really know better.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10262911/Para-showjumper-sued-mothers-GP-claiming-never-born-wins-landmark-case.html do you remember this case?

Another one to say PCOS is not intersex. BTW I also know of women diagnosed with PCOS at age 20, let’s say, then none at later scans. Sex, physical organs and structures, isn’t changeable like that even if hormone levels can fluctuate.

The BNF states for testosterone use in pregnancy ‘avoid, causes masculinisation of female foetuses’. For other things like antidepressants it’s use if benefits (in mum) outweigh the risks (eg on heart development).

However i would say the number of women taking T in pregnancy would be mypuch lower than women who are damaging the baby in many other ways.

I take your point, but in the case of testosterone it would be a prescribed medication signed off by doctors and pharmacists. Which would be as good as saying that taking high doses of T is acceptable in pregnancy. There would be no equivalent argument for illegal drugs, alcohol and cigarettes, no matter how many women swear their doctor or midwife has okayed it because “the stress of giving up would be worse for the baby than the nicotine”.

I have pcos and 2 likely nd children. Rates of asd higher with pcos.
If anything we should be reducing womens testosterone by giving metformin. I
And potentially to othe women with high glucose.

It also makes no sense to take T when their presentation with large pregnant belly is not going to be of a man.
Would high T if it does cause asd be considered teterogenic (sp)

However i would say the number of women taking T in pregnancy would be mypuch lower than women who are damaging the baby in many other ways.
Smoking in pregnancy also linked to asd and pcos.

Calling women with PCOS intersex is so, so rude.