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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

This is outrageous - medical paper argues that wanting healthy, undeformed babies should be "queered"

190 replies

Sidaway · 18/07/2023 08:38

So shocked I'm beyond words. I read on Twitter this morning that a paper, in a mainstream medical journal published by Elsevier, says:

"The authors argue that “gendered” pregnancy care is too focused on helping women have healthy babies, and that it might be okay for transmen to continue taking testosterone during pregnancy despite the known health risks to the fetus and effects on its normal development. The desire for “normal fetal outcomes,” according to the authors, is rooted in a problematic desire “to protect their offspring from becoming anything other than ‘normal’” and “reflect historical and ongoing social practices for creating ‘ideal’ and normative bodies."

https://twitter.com/babybeginner/status/1681087794998030337
https://www.realityslaststand.com/p/is-there-a-doctor-in-the-house

The queer lobby must really, really hate children.

What did Elsevier think they were doing by publishing this? They should be called out for this very hard.

https://twitter.com/babybeginner/status/1681087794998030337

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OldCrone · 10/05/2024 06:47

Valeriekat · 10/05/2024 01:16

Well it isn't a research paper is it? Its an opinion piece.

What makes you think this is an opinion piece, not a research paper?

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2667321523000811?via%3Dihub

SSM - Qualitative Research in Health is a peer-reviewed, open access journal that publishes international and interdisciplinary qualitative research, methodological, and theoretical contributions related to medical care, illness, disease, health, and wellbeing from across the globe.

Valeriekat · 10/05/2024 01:16

Well it isn't a research paper is it? Its an opinion piece.

Redrosegirlie · 08/05/2024 15:42

NicCageisnotNickCave · 18/07/2023 08:51

Meanwhile, over in the normie land, many pregnant women agonise over having a single glass of fizz at a wedding and burst into tears when the breakfast eggs they ordered in an cafe are served runny.

This.
99.999% of pregnant women want to give birth to a healthy baby without any complication and are happy for 9 months that their own needs and wants are secondary.
How utterly self centred are these people?

duc748 · 08/05/2024 12:39

All I remember of that is the cover art! I'm more of a 70s person as far as RH is concerned.

SerendipityJane · 08/05/2024 12:29

duc748 · 08/05/2024 12:00

Flashes From the Archive of Oblivion

Roy Harper fan?

Whatever happened to Jugula ?

Grammarnut · 08/05/2024 12:27

SerendipityJane · 08/05/2024 08:05

Obsessive.

Grammarnut · 08/05/2024 12:25

FoodFann · 18/07/2023 08:42

I feel physically sick.

Me too. But this was an inevitable consequence of queer theory, I suspect.

duc748 · 08/05/2024 12:00

Flashes From the Archive of Oblivion

Roy Harper fan?

Dineasair · 08/05/2024 10:17

Igneococcus · 08/05/2024 06:48

Cris du chat is caused by a partial deletion of chromosome 5. A health professional should have picked up on it if this child has the condition, it's a very distinctive sound.

That’s what I thought too, it’s unmistakable.

Igneococcus · 08/05/2024 06:48

Cris du chat is caused by a partial deletion of chromosome 5. A health professional should have picked up on it if this child has the condition, it's a very distinctive sound.

AppleStrudel23 · 08/05/2024 04:20

This is a hard topic when a foetus doesn't even have a right to life let alone a right to stay healthy..

Controversial I know but if we're allowed to kill them why can't they be potentially harmed in the womb? (I believe humans have a right to life from conception before anyone thinks I'm condoning this)

Dineasair · 08/05/2024 02:14

potniatheron · 18/07/2023 09:26

There is a 'trans man' v active on tik tok - Exulansic has a few videos on her. She boasts of taking testosterone for most of her pregnancy as didn't realise she could get pregnant on it. Anyways, her videos are chilling - she speaks in very dismissive terms of her baby daughter (maybe PND?) and is prioritising 'transgender surgeries' over her baby's health, and if going into $ tens of thousands debt for those surgeries.

The most worrying thing to me is the baby - the woman talks about (and mocks) the baby's unfocussed eyes and floppiness (baby is about 6 months now). Baby often heard crying in another room during the videos - has a very strange, almost cat like monotonous mewl. I don't know if that's a red flag for anything but she doesn't sound like my babies did at that age. Or any babies I've ever met, really.

Any medical people on here can give insight? The description of that cry sounds very like a friend of mines daughter, who has a disabling genetic condition called Cri du chat syndrome, it’s French for “cry of the cat” I think. It’s very characteristic of that monotonous mewling cry, and she has unfocused eyes too.

jotajil · 29/08/2023 11:19

Elsevier Apparently are another advisory agency who 'helps researchers and healthcare professionals advance science and improve health outcomes for the benefit of society.'

Really?!
Advance science?!
And how do they do that?

I would turn help, advance, improve outcomes, benefit of society into their opposites

Who are they? What qualifies them to advise scientists and medical experts, apart from an ideology?
Is anyone taking any notice?

Also I am not going to use their nonsense vocabulary as if it means something.

jotajil · 29/08/2023 11:04

Thank you for this information. This surely cant be happening. I want to cry.

medianewbie · 22/07/2023 11:35

Thank you @Sidaway for posting this.
Thank you, @Bosky for your post which included links to historic info I had no idea about.

ANY pregnancy should always & only have the welfare of the child at heart.
That means NO artificial drugs should be taken by the gestating mother.

Every child, regardless of disability, sex, colour etc should have the best chance healthy birth. I too remember reading about a deaf mother who had deliberately chosen sperm from a deaf father so that a resulting baby would be born deaf.
Whilst I could see the logic, (I am part of a family where I am the only person who doesn't have Autism, to their & my frustration sometimes) I also think that any decision morally 'should' only be made by the child when old enough to understand (ie therefore could never be willingly chosen in utero). In my circs, I don't think any of us should have the option to choose for the other family member to be Autistic, or NT. We are different (inc the ASD ones) & that's 'life'.

The paper above is madness. The idea of it being 'normalised' across society (even small sections of it) is utterly terrifying. The Tavistock was bad enough.

ConnieLinggusThe69th · 21/07/2023 23:22

Sorry if been said I haven't got to the end of reading yet but I appreciate there can be disability where it's the way the world is that makes the disability difficult to live with not the disability itself or difference, if deaf people feel there's nothing wrong with it and just a difference- fine

But you wouldn't go causing disability or deafness on purpose in a baby who doesn't have it organically. This is saying it's wrong to NOT want to CAUSE potential disability ffs 🤦‍♀️

May as well just let folk designer baby to order if we go this far - want sympathy for having a disabled child? Pick one... well, my disability causes me severe physical pain. If my mother had fucking decided to cause it in me... I'd hate her, how narcissistic can you get? Cause someone lifelong disability to affirm your specialness?! Ffs - oh wait I know this by another name- munchausens by proxy

FrancescaContini · 21/07/2023 19:43

I love your analogy @RealityFan and agree with the toxic slag heap we’ve seen here.

RealityFan · 20/07/2023 20:36

Sidaway · 20/07/2023 17:33

Weefreetiffany Is this your peak moment?

Peak moments are like walking amongst hills and mountains. You always think you've reached the apex. But there are always others beyond.

But this one is as ugly a blot on the landscape as you're likely to see, a real toxic slag heap.

Weefreetiffany · 20/07/2023 18:43

@Sidaway i think so yes. I was happy to use preferred pronouns and trust that trans people are trans and have the right to wear and present how they want without fear of violence. That once you’re 18 you can modify yourself under the observation of a medical team if that’s what you choose. That sex is immutable but gender is stereotypes and subjective constructs and who cares what we wear anyway. But this has gone beyond that into a dangerous place where safeguarding and best practice of protecting the vulnerable in society are erased, as is the language we are allowed to use to discuss it. As a pregnant woman I feel this keenly. How can you not want to do the best for your unborn child? I notice there was no control group of non trans women to compare with, well here I am and I’m coming in hot.

Sidaway · 20/07/2023 17:33

Weefreetiffany Is this your peak moment?

OP posts:
Weefreetiffany · 20/07/2023 17:19

Why has gender identity become the prevailing and only important identity? Why is it important to the point of riding roughshod over others rights and needs? I’m so disgusted and angry that a person would treat their unborn child like this. Pregnant women are constantly told to mitigate risk in their diet, the medicines we shouldn’t use, the environments we are exposed to, arrested for a glass of wine, suffer through hayfever or morning sickness etc, yet it’s fine for a trans man to expose a foetus to a known tetragenic hormone, to make sure they don’t feel too female while pregnant? Because having a baby isn’t the most female sex gender thing you can do? I would love to have a glass of wine and plate of sushi, but I won’t incase there is the smallest risk to my 12 week old foetus. But let’s pump a baby full of testosterone, and retcon safe pregnancy outcomes to minimise the rights and needs of mothers and foetuses so psychopathic narcissists can carry on their main character syndrome journeys without having to think about the impact on anyone else. And act like they’re heroes for disabling children so they can pat themselves on the back for accepting their disabled children. Why don’t people see this for the cruel madness it is? It’s turned me full gender critical, that’s for sure.

Bosky · 20/07/2023 17:17

Sidaway - "It's not just that the authors a cavalier about the dangers to the unborn child (though that's evil of course). It's that they don't even see it as harm - instead they see wanting a "normal" baby as "problematic". So cis-heteronormative. They want a "queer" baby! Born trans, straight out of the womb."

You are right and this is something that many people reacting to this on social media cannot grasp, precisely because it is positively deranged and evil to laud the possibility of creating new humans with complex, life-long and sometimes life-limiting or life-threatening medical conditions.

The authors, the whole Queer Project, despite their professed focus on "gender" and "gender identity" cannot see beyond their obsession with "queering" biological sex, secondary sexual characteristics, sexuality and sexual behaviour - especially involving children and now infants and foetuses.

The politicisation of DSDs as "intersex" is central, not just for supposed validation of "transness" but as the ultimate challenge to "cis-heteronormativity" - also they are racist, so bonus points if the baby is Black with a capital B.

"The study involved a cross-sectional in-depth individual and focus group interview design, specifically the collection of qualitative interviews with 70 trans people . . .

A purposive sampling technique was employed to obtain participants using social media and social network recruitment, including targeted recruitment distributed to groups comprised of trans people of color. Research informational and recruitment flyers were posted to social media accounts (e.g., private and public Facebook groups, Twitter), shared at community conferences and events, and circulated via researcher and participant networks. . . .

Trans participants in the U.S. and Canada were paid $25-$50 to participate; participants of color were compensated at a higher rate due to targeted recruitment aims for the study and to reflect structural constraints to participation (e.g., U.S. history of racist research exploitation and increased requests for participation) faced by people of color. Trans participants in the European Union and Australia were not compensated for their participation. This reflected research norms at the institutions where ethical approval was granted, given concerns about compensation for participation in social research as a form of potential coercion"

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2667321523000811?via%3Dihub

The historical blindness of the researchers is staggering. No sooner have medical institutions apologised for the appalling, targeted exploitation of enslaved black women in past experiments in gynaecology than these researchers target recruitment of "trans people of color".

The ‘Father of Modern Gynecology’ Performed Shocking Experiments on Enslaved Women
His use of Black bodies as medical test subjects falls into a history that includes the Tuskegee syphilis experiment and Henrietta Lacks.
https://www.history.com/news/the-father-of-modern-gynecology-performed-shocking-experiments-on-slaves

Barry Wall @EDIJester has done a video about the "Medical uncertainty and reproduction of the “normal”: Decision-making around testosterone therapy in transgender pregnancy" paper.

"The Unborn are Next, This is Beyond Revolting"

As usual, well worth less than 15 minutes of your time.

This comment says everything that I think a lot of us are feeling:

Eve.n.t_horizon

I say this with the utmost seriousness and gravity.

I say this as someone who lives in a former fascist nation. I say this as someone that did study properly the subject in school, as its a big part of our normal curriculum, with people still alive today that lived through it:

This is worse than nazi Germany, this is worse than nazism.

Nazism was a rational (not in the common sense of sound ratio, but it had internal reasoning) of racist people with a grievance and thirst for power, things any sane mind can have (and why they are so scary to us, they show us how WE could be).

It showed us how mentally sane people can take a road that goes to hell, and not notice how they got there. It was evil, but not mental illness, in fact it tried its best to speak to the 'rationality' in people, using their naiveté, ignorance and fear to its advantage, to a dark and abhorrent goal.

This, instead, is mental illness to a degree human consciousness has only seen a glimpse of in Lovecraft novels.

Something beyond comprehension, beyond reason, beyond sanity.

It's something words fail to grasp or describe, a horror that keeps being made anew, a complete and total destruction of reality, up and beyond its fundamental elements. Just like Lovecraft said.

This is dissolution of man, with the excuse of having something better (never specifying or showing what though, mind you).

This is the incarnation of spite, rage, fury, contempt, disgust and blind destruction.

And not even the organic destruction which would be the other side of creation.

There is no creation here, just corruption.

One step at a time. Incremental at first (oh how I miss those times), then exponential.

We will never be the same as a species, that is obvious.

Like we were never the same after the nazis, but this feels even more fundamental. This is epochal, this is existential, literally about existence, and against it:

Transpeople have a high suicidal rate, but thats not enough, everyone else has to go with them, in the ultimate act of narcissism.

The men, the women, and the children too.

Transhumanism is literally 'beyond humanity', with no future for humanity as itself.

It didn't use to be that way, it was supposed to be just about some cool augments like a robot arm for the handicapped, or a new way to see for the blind.

But like everything else touched by the ideology, it got corrupted, into its worst version, and then amplified to the world stage.

And whats scarier:

When you have an infection, a fever is how your body reacts, and sure, sometimes the fever might kill you so you have to temp it down.

But you know whats worse? An infection with no fever. A body that doesn't fight. An immune system being slip by, never enough 'triggered' to react accordingly.

Will we reach the fever, now? Will there be the hot flash like in ww2? Or will the illness be allowed to linger, instead? We are not suited for war anymore, that fire bred out of us, taught out of us, ashamed and bashed.

Just like we didn't know what would happen when the atom bomb was invented, and everything changed, I don't have an answer to this new change, which may be even bigger.

We are at the cusp of history, and I'm scared.

The ‘Father of Modern Gynecology’ Performed Shocking Experiments on Enslaved Women | HISTORY

J. Marion SIms' use of Black bodies as medical test subjects is part of an unethical history that includes the Tuskegee syphilis experiment and Henrietta Lacks.

https://www.history.com/news/the-father-of-modern-gynecology-performed-shocking-experiments-on-slaves

Froodwithatowel · 20/07/2023 16:34

It is only being spun as a 'good thing' in order to permit an adult to do whatever they want without having to deal with their ego saying 'you being a selfish bad person' and making them uncomfortable.

That's it. That's all.

What's needed is to learn to deal with having a conscience and coping with the word 'no'.

Xoxoxoxoxoxox · 20/07/2023 16:32

Instead they see wanting a "normal" baby as "problematic". So cis-heteronormative. They want a "queer" baby! Born trans, straight out of the womb.

Yes, where will it go next, pregnancy screening for severe abnormalities or corrective surgery for certain birth defects being seen as reinforcing cis-heteronormativity?