Is anyone else finding being gender critical has affected their mental health?

@nepeta Fascinating, & seems potentially painfully relevant...

I read about the human tendency toward tribalism the other day and how many no longer feel that they belong to geographic (such as all who live in a particular village) or kinship tribes but rather to online thought tribes. This can affect how we judge others, what determines who 'outsiders' are etc.

One negative effect of cyber-tribes has been how the complicated nature of most people is seen as flattened into just a few facets when everything revolves around one set of values or one ideology. Those facets, then, become central in deciding on who is to be ejected from the tribe etc. The political party someone belongs to, say, or if the person is 'queer' or other similar demographic signals.

I saw this before the trans rights vs. women's rights debate in other types of political debates, and also saw purity spirals develop and how the canceling of individuals happens online and then bleeds into real life.

For a traditional tribe to ostracise one of its members usually requires quite a bit more than what seems to be happening now, because very few of us are without some flaws or without any good sides.

For instance, when I was a child I knew a woman who was rather unpleasant in some ways. She could be quite nasty about other people (gossipy, very bossy, not always quite honest, yelled at us children) and caused a lot of hurt feelings (among adults, not just children).

But when someone in the village was ailing, it was this woman who went in with meals, who cleaned the house, who called the doctors and so on, and when someone got into money trouble it was she who gave them help.

We might be losing our ability to see such complicated people without judging them hastily (or without the reverse, of putting someone on a pedestal for their stated virtues).

This might have nothing to do with the topic of this thread...

Scrolling through Twitter is hard because there's so much hate for anyone GC, and this is in spite of the fact I follow so many people who are GC.

Thankfully, my circle of friends for the most part, are all GC. Even so, we tend to talk in whispers when in public, or mostly via text messages and emails. Work has been tricky though, particularly a few jobs ago where I came into a lot of contact with Edward Lord. I learnt to keep a low profile and my mouth shut which I think has helped me. Another thing that also helped is to not to engage with anyone, particularly men I didn't know for certain to be GC - it's usually men who are the most rabid. I just don't need the hassle.

Thankfully, you all keep me sane.

(I speak from some experience - no dramatic fallings-out as yet, long may that continue, but complex undercurrents & difficult conversations I've had to think very hard about how to navigate. It's arguably been good for me, but not easy).

@BluebellBlueballs I need to stop cross-posting! To be clear, my last wasn't in any way a reference to your specific circumstances, but rather a reflection on myself in more general terms. I've been multitasking & nipping between threads a little, & often post to explore my own thoughts! In this context, that places my last few posts out of context, & is so maybe not helpful for you - apologies.

Reading your last, your attitude, which is reflected in that of many other FWR posters, is exactly one of the reasons I find myself reassured we're not "the baddies": we do listen & empathise. It sounds as though you've done what you can, & he's (they have) taken a hardline approach. That he's acted decisively enough on this to cut you off, to your understandable distress, while you're here painfully processing this & re-assessing your own actions says a huge amount about you. And that's what I mean by my more considered post re: what this can teach us (ugh, forgive the phrasing!)

I hope you can take away from what's happened that, counter-intuitively, these dramatic statements of cutting off & defriending can sometimes show an ironic intolerance that belies claims to the moral high-ground. The sheer strength of such a gesture unsettles us & makes us question ourselves, & that's upsetting & deeply wrong in one way - it can act as a kind of emotional blackmail - but, looked at from another perspective, it teaches us (ugh, again - educates us?! 😉) about who we are in how we respond to it. And then who they are in how they respond to that response. And by reflecting in that way, we can then take steps to rebuild the relationship, or walk away with a better understanding of why we felt we had to do so.

Waffly platitudes over & out. (But hope they help a little).

Sorry you are having a tough time, and sorry to everyone else who has also suffered. It is a bit crap when friends think less of us. I hope these issues are resolved for you.
In answer to the original question, I did find this harder to start with, but a few years on, my mental health has definitely improved. I think the clarity with which I now see the world, compared to the distorted left wing, almost religious world view I was attached to has been amazingly healthful. I now value truth above everything and I'm far more aware of how little I know about the world. Also knowing without a doubt that I am right about the GC position is very galvanising.

And my post was in response to @Maddy70, not @BluebellBlueballs particular circumstances. I'd rather fight for a relationship than give it up due to something like this. But I also think something like this, which can expose such deep faultlines, & how we & friends etc. engage with the challenges presented by this, can help us to understand that relationship more deeply, & act accordingly.

PS My post above suggests a very reductive view. I think Iäve just been influenced by the distressing PCOS thread, which is a very different context to this one! I'm not militant myself: indeed, I'd say I'm very cautious. My relationships are very important to me. But what a pity that more people can't simply agree to disagree. I value open-minded discussion in my friends: people's views but, even more, their readiness to engage in open-minded discussion are a key part OF our relationships.

I liken it to bereavement. Sorry if people out there have lost and this seems trite. But there are some parallels.

It's probably more like the breakdown of a relationship, a divorce or separation. The loss of a dear friendship. This movement is tearing families and relationships apart.

My son is not dead but I never see him or hear from him and I don't know if I ever will. I do feel like I have been through the stages of grief and have settled on acceptance now.

If it really is that much one or the other, all or nothing... then perhaps the relationship's not worth having?

Have you been very militant in sharing your views? My best friend has views politically very different to mine. We just don't discuss it. Neither of us is going to change our mind. I think he is a dick for having those views, he believes I am.

We just don't talk about them. What's more important your views or your relationships?

Here’s a little positive ray, then. I’m chatting with (well, more on the periphery of!) a group of maybe 20 people from the continent, & The Issue comes up. There are mainly unanimous expressions concern. Some stories are exchanged, & I tentatively mention Mumsnet FWR. Cue instant smiles & chuckles of appreciative recognition. None of them were British or native English speakers, to the best of my knowledge. Even just talking - respectful, empathetic posting - can make a difference.

Yes, it’s dystopian and Orwellian - the capture of so many intelligent people and respectable organisations, and the endless bloody gaslighting. Men will never be women, and they sure as hell aren’t mothers. Women will never be men. People are free to be as gender non-conforming as they like and that’s fantastic. I’m all for smashing gender stereotypes, they’re stifling and outdated. However, reality cannot be denied. The Earth is still round, even if it identifies as flat.

I worry about children being brainwashed by gender ideology, and I fear women and their achievements are being erased. That’s before getting into the issues of women’s safety, dignity and privacy being eroded by being forced to accept males into female toilets, changing rooms, prisons, domestic violence refuges and rape crisis centres.

Unfortunately I can’t talk to my OH about any of this, and that’s draining. I have “come out” but we’ve agreed to disagree.

Short of taking a break from it all, I would like to see some sunlight threads showing the tide is turning as it can get very demoralising surfing the FWR forum. And as a GC woman who generally wants to be nice to people, it is a strain to have to keep checking in with myself and asking am I the baddie here?

If we called it The Underground or The Resistance, it might shame a few Labour MPs into realising what they have done.

But yes, who would have thought it?

I own my own home, so the MRAs cannot take it off me. There is no Council or HA or mortgagee for the babba-terrorists to go whingeing to. I can have whomsoever I like in my home, to say what they like.

Such a good idea , who'd of thought we as women would have to go underground .

I feel it as well. It's really affected my relationship with both my DD . I really worry for myn and my daughter's safety and life as women. We raised them to understand how important women's rights are but to also be supportive of other people choices.They are not trans but seem to be so accepting of it and have the opinion that I am repressing people's freedom to live and identify as they wish and they have the attitude of " it won't affect women don't be stupid"!( are they fucking kidding ) . Even my DH told them they are woke and are acting really blind to it all and that even he seems to care more about womens rights than them . I very rarely see my DD now and it is very uncomfortable when I talk to them . I never thought that this fucked up ideology would affect my relationship with my DD.

All of that.

@BluebellBlueballs falling out with your brother is really tough. Is there a chance that the ladymen issue is a cover for something more personal between you two?

Family breakdown is awful. I hope you and your brother can come to some sort of rapprochement.

More generally, the vast majority of people know that you can't change sex. I am starting to try and have conversations with people about it. So far I've had one humongous row, but been relieved by the number of others who are also realists.

It's a lovely idea. Just talking, sharing and being together with other women.
Mind you, recently a group of women did this in order to reclaim their women's group from the intrusion of men claiming to be women. Unbelievably these men turned up outside one woman's house and called the police, demanding entry. Fortunately the police were great and told them to get lost.

But yes, these women are rebuilding from the ground up - as so many of us are.

I got too angry leading up to a particular low day about 12 months ago. It was cathartic, the news story was beyond preposterous and triggering to the max. I decided to try and find a therapy solution, and for me it's been invaluable.

I liken it to beravement. Sorry if people out there have lost and this seems trite. But there are some parallels.

Or maybe more like losing a lifelong friend or soulmate. Even moreso if there's nothing you can do.

You'll never get over losing a super close individual, the bonds are too tight. But you also have to come out the other end.

For me, realising I have zero influence on the direction of society, but also society can't make me submit to untruths and immature thinking, has been my salvation.