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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Musk tweets Suzanne Moore's comment piece: "The cult of gender ideology is finally disintegrating"

120 replies

ResisterRex · 10/06/2023 07:07

He's not @'d her but he's tweeted her comment piece in the Telegraph from last week:

twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1667297563719122945?s=46&t=WHoOZ_3Kv5G6-FyQuvE0LQ

Underneath, he's added an archived link and a comment, saying: "It is worth noting that kids who are same-sex attracted and/or autistic are the most vulnerable".

As he's has a lot of followers (140M or so), this means a lot more chance of the issues reaching a lot more people.

Previously this kind of thing would have risked being taken down on Twitter, so it's maybe a sign that #nodebate is gone/going.

OP posts:
AutumnCrow · 10/06/2023 18:04

mastertomsmum · 10/06/2023 13:57

Lordy don’t these journalists realise that if the only newspapers that will have them are right wing then they might just selling their souls for one area of opinion.

The Morning Star, really? Goodness me, how Marxism has changed lately.

mirax · 10/06/2023 17:45

Summerhillsquare · 10/06/2023 09:53

He's no friend to feminists.

Not many of the gold star feminist heroines, organisations and publications have been a friend to women and children on this issue. I totally understand why women like Posie Parker eschew the feminist label.

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 10/06/2023 17:41

ermagard why are you talking about trans stuff, literally no one else is interested, you’re, like obsessed

seems to be the latest thing

personally I’d say that a global movement which seeks to define women using cultural stereotypes and allow men to push their boundaries with impunity is a very relevant thing to bring up in an interview with a feminist author

mastertomsmum · 10/06/2023 17:30

NotHavingIt · 10/06/2023 17:24

Simon Hattenstone also has his own agenda. Every journalist brings as much of themselves to an interview, as does the interviewee.

I'd have given Margaret Atwood some curve balls too. I'd always loved her novels, and her poems, especially, and so I'd definitely have wanted to probe her nonsensical views around tra issues.

Well all I can say is there is a real difference between the approach Hattenstone takes and the results make better reading. Regardless of anyone’s position on tra being so tiresomely self regarding as an interviewer never makes good reading.

mastertomsmum · 10/06/2023 17:25

Erm, yes the interviewer comes back with the article of the interview with her chosen slant on the topic and the byline writer gives it a byline. Doubtless Atwood thought, I don’t mind the result because it does come across well. The postscript style para stuff probably amused her but it wasn’t a professional article of the standard you’d expect

NotHavingIt · 10/06/2023 17:24

mastertomsmum · 10/06/2023 16:55

Erm, this is an interview with an author. The interviewer went off in the direction of her own interests and kept on with this to the exclusion of what the job in hand was. If you want to see good interview technique, see Simon Hattenstone, Guardian

Simon Hattenstone also has his own agenda. Every journalist brings as much of themselves to an interview, as does the interviewee.

I'd have given Margaret Atwood some curve balls too. I'd always loved her novels, and her poems, especially, and so I'd definitely have wanted to probe her nonsensical views around tra issues.

GailBlancheViola · 10/06/2023 17:18

Erm, this is an interview with an author. The interviewer went off in the direction of her own interests and kept on with this to the exclusion of what the job in hand was. If you want to see good interview technique, see Simon Hattenstone, Guardian

This is the title of the piece:

Margaret Atwood on feminism, culture wars and speaking her mind:

Therefore the interviewer was right to cover all the the above topics, those are interests of the author.

hotjuneafternoon · 10/06/2023 17:05

it's personal for Elon too as he has a trans child. Said child has allegedly disowned him
(but I bet they'll be along after he's gone to request his share of the Will)

BabyStopCryin · 10/06/2023 17:03

BBC haven’t got the Memo. I listen to a lot of podcasts and very often hear someone (always been a woman so far) wittering on about being ‘cis’, or attributing a lesbian being beaten to death as a result of her ‘gender identity’.

give me strength…

mastertomsmum · 10/06/2023 16:55

NotHavingIt · 10/06/2023 16:12

Journalsim is not meant to be kind, it is meant to challenge and to critique.

Erm, this is an interview with an author. The interviewer went off in the direction of her own interests and kept on with this to the exclusion of what the job in hand was. If you want to see good interview technique, see Simon Hattenstone, Guardian

Charley50 · 10/06/2023 16:20

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 10/06/2023 11:07

I hadn't read that Suzanne Moore article, it's a corker

I'll bet she's somewhat bemused to find herself being amplified by a silicon valley squillionaire, but by george it's a good thing.

I'm quite enjoying all the stuff on social media and the BBC about how Musk has ruined twitter. I really don't think he has

Yes BBC are desperately trying to smear Elon, but it doesn't fly. He is on the side of free speech, and he understands the danger of trans ideology to both children, and to free speech.

BBC have been pushing the trans agenda for years now. They have been rumbled. They are culpable in trans ideology taking hold in the UK. Elon is a threat to them as people are getting their media (including facts rather than propaganda) from Twitter, and rejecting BBC et al.

FrancescaContini · 10/06/2023 16:15

Macaboom · 10/06/2023 15:18

It is worth noting that kids who are same-sex attracted and/or autistic are the most vulnerable

He tweeted this under the article, good for him I am glad he's highlighting this.

Me too.

NotHavingIt · 10/06/2023 16:12

mastertomsmum · 10/06/2023 14:21

Personally, I think Hadley F and Suzanne Moore have gone too far with some of their pieces to be accommodated in middle ground, liberal or left wing press. An example would be the interview where Hadley Freeman was mean about Margaret Atwood.

Journalsim is not meant to be kind, it is meant to challenge and to critique.

NotHavingIt · 10/06/2023 16:11

mastertomsmum · 10/06/2023 14:23

But it’s the Telegraph, which is almost the The Daily Mail or Express

People who write for, or read, the Telegraph are still human beings - they are not a hostile alien life form.

GailBlancheViola · 10/06/2023 16:06

No, not my view but the interviewer was pressing her own agenda not interviewing an interesting author in the round. She bashed on about her favourite issue then squared it by telling us there was an off the record bit.

It was a very wide ranging interview and the interviewer was not pressing her own agenda merely questioning Margaret Attwood regarding statement and letter she had signed which appear to be somewhat contradictory and also out of line with her other expressed views. Perfectly fair and reasonable.

GailBlancheViola · 10/06/2023 16:02

Ok, then I will tell it like it is. She wasted valuable interview time trying to push her own agenda.

Tell it like it is (snort) who the hell appointed you as the Oracle?

Bringing into the interview questions about statement Margaret Attwood had made and letters she put her name to regarding a current topic being widely discussed and featured?

mastertomsmum · 10/06/2023 16:01

IncomingTraffic · 10/06/2023 15:55

So your version of ‘good interviewing’ is something more like simpering sycophancy?
Is that correct?

Generally interviewers will have researched things and may well challenge people in various ways. what’s the point otherwise?

No, not my view but the interviewer was pressing her own agenda not interviewing an interesting author in the round. She bashed on about her favourite issue then squared it by telling us there was an off the record bit.

IncomingTraffic · 10/06/2023 15:55

mastertomsmum · 10/06/2023 15:45

Ok, then I will tell it like it is. She wasted valuable interview time trying to push her own agenda.

So your version of ‘good interviewing’ is something more like simpering sycophancy?
Is that correct?

Generally interviewers will have researched things and may well challenge people in various ways. what’s the point otherwise?

unwashedanddazed · 10/06/2023 15:51

mastertomsmum · 10/06/2023 15:45

Ok, then I will tell it like it is. She wasted valuable interview time trying to push her own agenda.

It read to me that she listened to Atwood talk at great length about her current obsessions and then asked a few questions about Atwood's publicly stated views on gender. It seems in an effort to unravel the contradictions in Atwood's statements. Time well spent, not wasted, in my view.

mastertomsmum · 10/06/2023 15:45

unwashedanddazed · 10/06/2023 14:55

https://www.theguardian.com/books/ng-interactive/2022/feb/19/margaret-atwood-on-feminism-culture-wars

This interview? Mean? Embarrassing? I think Freeman was extraordinarily respectful and kind. Asking someone about views they have expressed publicly is not 'mean' (such a childish perspective).

Ok, then I will tell it like it is. She wasted valuable interview time trying to push her own agenda.

IcakethereforeIam · 10/06/2023 15:22

'Mean' as in average? I think it was an excellent interview. I think Hadley does great interviews.

Macaboom · 10/06/2023 15:18

It is worth noting that kids who are same-sex attracted and/or autistic are the most vulnerable

He tweeted this under the article, good for him I am glad he's highlighting this.

GailBlancheViola · 10/06/2023 15:14

Okay, thanks to @unwashedanddazed I've read the interview and see nothing remotely mean in it, although for some so steeped in this ideology anything and everything is mean or worse.

FrancescaContini · 10/06/2023 15:03

OldCrone · 10/06/2023 14:20

Suzanne Moore had been writing for the Guardian for about 30 years before she finally left for the Telegraph because the Guardian was effectively silencing her. No idea what you mean by 'selling their souls'. She just wanted to be able to write about issues that she felt were important.

https://unherd.com/2020/11/why-i-had-to-leave-the-guardian/

Thank you for pointing this out, @OldCrone
The Guardian treated SM very badly. She was one of their better writers, so it was their loss.

GailBlancheViola · 10/06/2023 15:00

SidewaysOtter · 10/06/2023 14:41

I don’t buy this idea that anything right wing is terrible and unacceptable, and I say that as a lefty. It’s a fucking mainstream newspaper that’s right of centre, not the Nazi Weekly.

I agree with you @SidewaysOtter if anything the Guardian and their authoritarian attitude are the ones showing complete intolerance and the ones demanding you sell your soul to the ideology and politics they promote if you wish to work there/write for them. The supposed 'right wing' press seem more than capable to host people whose political allegiance is at complete odds with theirs without combusting.