New member of team at work and pronouns

I'd much rather judge him on his work performance but he's bringing in his political stance about gender identity and I do judge.

But you're quite happy to impose your own political stance on someone based upon a likely policy they're following in their current workplace. Why don't you reserve your judgement until he starts work.

OP I'd leave it. Some people add this like they include their company fax number - just cos it's practice where they are. Assume he is one of them, until proved otherwise. I agree with you but it's his right to state them as it is yours not to.

On behalf of all Sams/Leslies/Alexes everywhere please stop making this facile argument. This has NEVER been a problem. Nobody needs to know what sex I am for work purposes. Why do you need to know I am a female if you're asking me to approve a budget / attend a meeting / deliver a presentation? Unless you are sexist and want to make a judgement on me.

5 decades I've had a gender-neutral name. Trust me. This is not an issue.

Well, yes. It is the " be kind" and "don't address the issue" tendency that stores up problems to deal with later.

This

Staying pronouns is compelling speech. It’s instructing you to use words that you may not choose. It’s making you take part in a fiction.

Nobody needs to state pronouns anymore than they need to announce their other beliefs at work. Just do your work.

Workplaces are being encouraged for people to adopt it in the name of “allyship”, this is disingenuous and intended to make the ones who don’t adhere look “unkind” or behind the times. This is intentional in the move to normalise it.

There’s a lot of money to be made from the indoctrination of wider society into adopting gender ideology. This has never been about helping people with a genuine struggle with their sex, body or identity.

OPs new hire needs to use the brand profile he’s given and not indulgently make up his own.

How on earth did people manage before all this pronoun nonsense?
It wasn’t necessary before and it’s not necessary now.

But he's been recruted by soneone into a workplace in which this practice is not normal. There's no harm in setting out culture expecattions right at the start - save misunderstandings later.

I'm being sent on a team building away day 🙄

About a month ago we were sent an online questionnaire the results of which would form the basis of our work on the away day. I couldn't get past page 1 because the pronoun box was compulsory. On complaining to the woman from training I was told that she was very sorry I couldn't find a pronoun I was comfortable with and they are planning on expanding the range. My reply explained that wasn't the problem but the enforced use of pronouns per se. My reply quickly degenerated into a rant about privacy, human rights, discrimination and even the enforced use of titles such as Ms/Mrs which identify gender and often marital status (I get annoyed about many things 😀). Poor woman (or am I assuming too much. I don't know, her email had no pronouns but it was a pretty common female Muslim name. Although even then I'm assuming too much by labelling her as Muslim. Should she have to disclose her faith in her email signature or even explain her level of faith, if any? Anyway, I digress too much ) replied one sentence...'I'll have to speak to my manager'.

The away day is next week. No one has been in touch. I haven't completed the form.

You say their manager adds pronouns and so do they. Then say you are the manager. Take it up with his manager then as the worker may be following suit. If no one else does it they may soon remove this anyway. I generally think less of people who add pronouns especially when this appears when you've known them for a while, have a full beard and are called David. I don't feel he is announcing anything other than lack of critical thinking.

That would depend, wouldn't it - on the pronouns he is using., If he was using female pronouns and is obviously male, then as a manger of a team of mostly women who do not follow such practices, I'd certainly be inclined to have a gentle word right from the start. If ignored misunderstanding and mis-perceptions could start to build into something far more difficult.

Nobody "needs" pronouns in their email signature! People have had ambiguous names like Chris and Robin for a lot longer than email has existed and we all managed fine. And personally, no I wouldn't hire someone who requested special pronouns - strong indicator of being generally high-maintenance, over-sensitive, and potentially even litigious. I wouldn't go near them.

Leave it, just respond if he brings it up. I suspect a lot of men do this because everyone else is doing it. I have a colleague who has pronouns as one of his kids is going through the 'trans phase' and he is trying to be supportive and get his head around what is happening to his child. In no way is he on a 'men are women' campaign.

I share all the aforementioned views on the damaging ideology of pronoun use. I work in a university where EDI is a growing movement (and with some positives, when truly addressing issues of equality diversity & inclusion) but as a result, pronouns are increasingly used in email signatures.

We aren't required to, and I don't.

However, I think OP's view here is shocking & problematically judgmental. She has no idea of his views - and regardless of my own views, I respect the right of others to hold theirs. Use of pronouns might indicate a certain mindset or it might not.

I'd probably raise an eyebrow too, but no more than that.

As PP said, if there's a email signature template you provide this without comment. The idea that you would directly address his use of pronouns is frankly batshit & a really bad approach as a manager.

Goodness we seen to have lot of be kind visitors on this thread

this is why pronouns in emails can get to fuck

it’s not a neutral act of inclusivity, it’s opening the door to women’s spaces and saying ti men “you’re welcome on them”

mo

Written by a Mumsnetter back in 2019.

https://fairplayforwomen.com/pronouns/

@lycheelover " It is a simple matter of letting colleagues know how to address them."

No, it's not neutral, it's ideologically loaded - more akin to a religious statement and carries an element of coercion (I've seen this happen in meetings - someone more powerful stating pronouns and then women from less powerful positions who had already stated their names hastily falling over themselves to add pronouns to ingratiate themselves). Ms, Miss, Mrs, Mr are the normal, everyday, centuries old way of knowing whether the person with the possibly ambiguous name is male or female when you're referring to them.

Important to bear in mind that the pronoun thing has the potential to have adverse impacts on employees with ASCs or LDs. Certainly I know my son who has ASD struggles with abstract concepts like « gender identity ». (So do I for that matter!)
important to remember that disability is also a protected characteristic.

I'd watch and wait. See what he is like when he arrives, how he acts towards the team etc.

I agree.

I never used to understand this as I am CIS female but having taking the time to do some reading I now do understand and adding pronouns isn't an issue for me and removes the issue for someone who would otherwise always have to correct people who have made an assumption. If you are who you look you will never have experienced this.
I agree with a PP - this isn't about a man flaunting his privilege. In fact, it's the opposite as not a chance would 'that' man be adding pronouns.

The reason they are sometimes necessary is so people who get assumed the wrong pronouns can take the hassle of correcting people.
This could be any reason, from Sam/Leslie Bloggs, Xing Du, or non standard gender pronouns.

If Sam, Leslie or Xing Du are concerned that replies will be addressed to Mr when it should be Ms (or vice versa), they can include their preferred title in their signature. I used to do this until I eventually stopped caring about receiving mail addressed to 'Mr' and realised it was sometimes to my advantage if people thought I was male (research has shown that people often take men more seriously than women).

Third person pronouns are for when others are talking about you, usually in your absence, so you'll never know about it.

Everyone is male or female, so nonstandard pronouns are an affectation, and expecting others to use them is a power play.

I agree. I think maybe you should talk to him beforehand, I'd want to know if I was working for someone like you (and I wouldn't want to! Extremely judgemental imo, I bet this is just the tip of the iceberg).

Quite a few respondents here seem to be missing the point. Pronouns on an email signature are not just a harmless quirk but indicate that either someone has bought into gender ideology or that their employer has. Or, possibly, that they've cluelessly added them to look all modern and cool.

Gender ideology is a massive issue, opening up the door for the transing of children, insecure teenagers being herded down a path that ends with mutilation and sterility, men taking the medals in women's sports, men in women's prisons and so on. God knows, there are enough threads on FWR discussing all of this.

In OP's shoes, I'd tread very carefully. See what he does when he starts work and go from there.

I find it quite offensive in all honesty for a middle aged white man to be drawing attention to his privilege.

This bit is ridiculous and clutching at straws. He didn't put "he/him, white, middle aged." You arent offended by it because of that. Just say you hate the pronoun stuff and move on. Jesus, and I just read a thread poking at gen z and their lack of resilience.. offended at man being man... that's a new one.