Page 2 | New member of team at work and pronouns

Ihopeyoudance · 2023-06-10T00:22:05+00:00

I've recently recruited a new bloke to join my team, and in correspondence agreeing a start date, I can see he has pronouns in his email signature (as does his female current line manager). He's joining a team of mostly women and we don't do that. I find it quite offensive in all honesty for a middle aged white man to be drawing attention to his privilege. I also think it's inappropriate in the workplace to make that kind of statement. I'd much rather judge him on his work performance but he's bringing in his political stance about gender identity and I do judge. Anyway, from my conversations with him, I get the impression that he has them as those around him do and he thinks it makes him liberal and inclusive. I could be wrong though. I really want to suggest he reconsiders this and highlight the negative perception it may evoke. He may be mortified and not have considered the alternative. I'm the manager and don't really care about people's beliefs that don't impact work. I'm starting to put my head above the parapet though at work and don't want this kind of nonsense in my team as I find it really exclusionary. Does anyone have any suggestions for how to broach this?

Allthegoodnamesarechosen · 10/06/2023 11:00

JaneNormanBag · 10/06/2023 07:08

Maybe he’s trans. He’s not hurting you by doing it so leave your prejudice at the door

Trans which way? MTF or FTM ? I think OP would have noticed, either way.

WandaWonder · 10/06/2023 10:57

If he wants to use it himself I have no issue but I would not male any special arrangements or ask others to do it

I personally think the whole thing is ridiculous but I don't like this control thing that is also happening, if my colleague wants to do it why do they have to stop?

AgathaSpencerGregson · 10/06/2023 10:53

Bearpawk · 10/06/2023 09:51

Important to bear in mind that the pronoun thing has the potential to have adverse impacts on employees with ASCs or LDs. Certainly I know my son who has ASD struggles with abstract concepts like « gender identity ». (So do I for that matter!)
important to remember that disability is also a protected characteristic.

@AgathaSpencerGregson that's a ridiculous stretch, does your dc not call people by their pronouns then ? Do they not call you 'she'?

Yes, he does. I didn’t suggest otherwise. However, abstract concepts like « a different gender identity necessitating use of a set of pronouns other than those you would normally choose » are not accessible for
him.
can I gently suggest you might benefit from listening to those with different experiences from you more respectfully? You might be called upon one day to interact with someone like my DS.

ArabeIIaScott · 10/06/2023 10:42

pronouns are an overt political statement, and a contentious one at that.

Agree with this. Perhaps a standard template sign off would be a good idea - explicitly kept professional, without indication of sex, religious beliefs, sexuality, political party, etc. It surprises me if any private company would willingly involved themselves in such a political minefield, tbh.

NotHavingIt · 10/06/2023 10:24

continentallentil · 10/06/2023 10:21

It’s none of your business what he does!

Chances are it’s just something his previous company does and he has no strong feelings about it, if that makes you happier.

Of course it is his manager's issue. Everything we do, or expect, on a social level is everyone's else's issue.

NotHavingIt · 10/06/2023 10:24

He might understand and be perfectly relieved not to have to use them.

NotHavingIt · 10/06/2023 10:23

topnoddy · 10/06/2023 10:12

If it concerns you that much you could always withdraw the job offer and recruit someone else

More's the point....if pronouns are that big a deal to him then he might be better finding another workplace.

continentallentil · 10/06/2023 10:21

It’s none of your business what he does!

Chances are it’s just something his previous company does and he has no strong feelings about it, if that makes you happier.

topnoddy · 10/06/2023 10:12

If it concerns you that much you could always withdraw the job offer and recruit someone else

NotHavingIt · 10/06/2023 10:08

Alltheprettyseahorses · 10/06/2023 10:00

No pronouns in an email signature is the standard default position. Adding pronouns is an unprofessional political act and extremist gender ideology in itself.

Show quote history

Quite!

The resistance ( response) is not the same as the imposition ( initial action).

Imagine this man is a true believer in pronouns ( or even "doesn't see the harm") and at some point in the future decides he wants to use they/them pronouns. This sets up an expectation that people will have to refer to him in this way - making a super conscious effort in order to do so and to not get it wrong or " misgender" him. He sets himself apart by doing this; makes of himself as special case for whom different rules have to be applied.

Alltheprettyseahorses · 10/06/2023 10:00

SweetPetrichor · 10/06/2023 09:39

It’s ironic that you say you don’t want him bringing his politics to work (which he may not even do…he’s not even started yet, he may just be using a team template for his current email)…yet you want to stick your head above the parapet and bring your gender politics to work.

No pronouns in an email signature is the standard default position. Adding pronouns is an unprofessional political act and extremist gender ideology in itself.

Alltheprettyseahorses · 10/06/2023 09:57

I obviously don't know your company policy on political discussion in the workplace but if your employees email people outside the business they definitely shouldn't be imposing their ideology by having pronouns in their signature.

NotHavingIt · 10/06/2023 09:55

SweetPetrichor · 10/06/2023 09:39

It’s ironic that you say you don’t want him bringing his politics to work (which he may not even do…he’s not even started yet, he may just be using a team template for his current email)…yet you want to stick your head above the parapet and bring your gender politics to work.

Resistance to gender politics is just that. A resistance and a refusal to participate in a contentious issue that has been imposed without democratic consensus, and has no place in any workplace which doesn't choose it.

Let things slide may work well for some, but at the end of the day someone has to deal with the consequences. Best to nip things in the bud at the start.

Bearpawk · 10/06/2023 09:52

In my experience the majority people who go along with this do so because they think it's 'inclusive' and the done thing. They have no idea about the whole debate.

Bearpawk · 10/06/2023 09:51

Important to bear in mind that the pronoun thing has the potential to have adverse impacts on employees with ASCs or LDs. Certainly I know my son who has ASD struggles with abstract concepts like « gender identity ». (So do I for that matter!)
important to remember that disability is also a protected characteristic.

@AgathaSpencerGregson that's a ridiculous stretch, does your dc not call people by their pronouns then ? Do they not call you 'she'?

SirChenjins · 10/06/2023 09:44

Leave it for now. Presumably you have a standard email template within the team? If not and he attempts to shoehorn them in then just say that you don’t use pronouns in your team as they are irrelevant to the work.

People who say they aren’t harmful are either ill informed, wilfully ignorant or disingenuous.

SweetPetrichor · 10/06/2023 09:39

It’s ironic that you say you don’t want him bringing his politics to work (which he may not even do…he’s not even started yet, he may just be using a team template for his current email)…yet you want to stick your head above the parapet and bring your gender politics to work.

NotHavingIt · 10/06/2023 09:37

Doingmybest12 · 10/06/2023 09:00

You say their manager adds pronouns and so do they. Then say you are the manager. Take it up with his manager then as the worker may be following suit. If no one else does it they may soon remove this anyway. I generally think less of people who add pronouns especially when this appears when you've known them for a while, have a full beard and are called David. I don't feel he is announcing anything other than lack of critical thinking.

His previous manager used pronouns, not the OP, his current manger.

NotHavingIt · 10/06/2023 09:36

SallyWD · 10/06/2023 09:30

Just leave it? Why even mention it? He obviously thinks it's the right thing to do and has probably come from a work place where it's standard practice. I work at a university and people are encouraged to put pronouns. I personally don't but couldn't care less if others do. I certainly wouldn't be offended or feel I have to say something.

Because he's coming into a workplace in which it isn't, and because pronouns are an overt political statement, and a contentious one at that.

NotHavingIt · 10/06/2023 09:34

FKATondelayo · 10/06/2023 09:11

OP I'd leave it. Some people add this like they include their company fax number - just cos it's practice where they are. Assume he is one of them, until proved otherwise. I agree with you but it's his right to state them as it is yours not to.

It is not his 'right', anymore than it would be someone else's 'right' to overtly state that they are a scientologist or Buddhist in every communication.

It is a cultural expectation, not a right. Cultural expectations are the means and the method of how you embed ideology.

SallyWD · 10/06/2023 09:30

Just leave it? Why even mention it? He obviously thinks it's the right thing to do and has probably come from a work place where it's standard practice. I work at a university and people are encouraged to put pronouns. I personally don't but couldn't care less if others do. I certainly wouldn't be offended or feel I have to say something.

BuffysBigSister · 10/06/2023 09:27

LadyGAgain · 10/06/2023 08:32

I never used to understand this as I am CIS female but having taking the time to do some reading I now do understand and adding pronouns isn't an issue for me and removes the issue for someone who would otherwise always have to correct people who have made an assumption. If you are who you look you will never have experienced this.
I agree with a PP - this isn't about a man flaunting his privilege. In fact, it's the opposite as not a chance would 'that' man be adding pronouns.

I believe there is actually some research which suggests that when women "reveal" that they are women in work communications, emails etc, then they are treated differently. If we encourage blind recruitment practices i.e. don't disclose anything that would allow a recruiter to pre-judge a candidate such as age, race etc, then it suggests we know that revealing this info can sometimes impact people negatively.
I have a "female" name but it often gets shortened (which I hate) and because of the way our work email addresses are formatted I also often get called by my surname which is close to a female name. I used to get really annoyed about all of that but now I don't care. If other people want to put their pronouns in there that's their business but it is as interesting to me in a work situation as their religion or political allegiance - i.e. no interest at all.

EdithStourton · 10/06/2023 09:27

LadyGAgain · 10/06/2023 08:32

I never used to understand this as I am CIS female but having taking the time to do some reading I now do understand and adding pronouns isn't an issue for me and removes the issue for someone who would otherwise always have to correct people who have made an assumption. If you are who you look you will never have experienced this.
I agree with a PP - this isn't about a man flaunting his privilege. In fact, it's the opposite as not a chance would 'that' man be adding pronouns.

@LadyGAgain I can't work out how you can say this when you're also agreeing with my post at 8:12 where I say Gender ideology is a massive issue, opening up the door for the transing of children, insecure teenagers being herded down a path that ends with mutilation and sterility, men taking the medals in women's sports, men in women's prisons and so on. God knows, there are enough threads on FWR discussing all of this.

I think you are confused.

I have been GC for bloody years. I object to the use of 'cis' - I'm just a woman, I don't need any further descriptor.

Doingmybest12 · 10/06/2023 09:21

Doingmybest12 · 10/06/2023 09:00

You say their manager adds pronouns and so do they. Then say you are the manager. Take it up with his manager then as the worker may be following suit. If no one else does it they may soon remove this anyway. I generally think less of people who add pronouns especially when this appears when you've known them for a while, have a full beard and are called David. I don't feel he is announcing anything other than lack of critical thinking.

I obviously lack comprehension skills, missed they are not in the team yet. Wait and see, or share email sign off template. Surely ge can see from your emails that this isn't custom and practice at your company.

GCautist · 10/06/2023 09:16

EarringsandLipstick · 10/06/2023 08:43

I share all the aforementioned views on the damaging ideology of pronoun use. I work in a university where EDI is a growing movement (and with some positives, when truly addressing issues of equality diversity & inclusion) but as a result, pronouns are increasingly used in email signatures.

We aren't required to, and I don't.

However, I think OP's view here is shocking & problematically judgmental. She has no idea of his views - and regardless of my own views, I respect the right of others to hold theirs. Use of pronouns might indicate a certain mindset or it might not.

I'd probably raise an eyebrow too, but no more than that.

As PP said, if there's a email signature template you provide this without comment. The idea that you would directly address his use of pronouns is frankly batshit & a really bad approach as a manager.

This ^^

There are hills to die on and this isn’t the one. Enforced pronoun sharing I completely disagree with but some bloke sticking a he/him or they/them would just get an eyeroll
and I’d move on to more important work shit.

i know I’ll get flamed for this but these
kinds of posts just make the GC
community look batshit crazy. I’d respond differently if it had been about enforced pronoun use and adding pride flags to signatures but this is making a mountain out of a molehill. It really doesn’t say anything about his ideology and just that someone is trying to follow what is quickly becoming an email convention in many workplaces across the country.