Pride Month: Workplace have asked for anonymous feedback on "how can we be more inclusive?"

You don’t need to identify a gender to know what pronouns you prefer for yourself. You can prefer she/her because that is your sex. It’s not a problem for some to prefer pronouns by sex and some by gender.

Everyone should be referred to with the pronouns they prefer for themself, but no one can know what you prefer if the OP gets her way and they are stopped from even asking.

Some classic TRA-level argumentation going on here, ignore any points you can't cope with and repeat your conclusion as if that was persuasive in its own right.

The whole 'respect and love' thing really grinds my gears.

Is it a requirement that you treat all colleagues with respect in the workplace? Yes.

Are you required to love them all? Of course you're bloody not. What does that even mean? You coo at them? Cuddle them? Walk around declaring your undying affection? Send them valentines cards? What? We're talking about people, not pet kittens.

It's sentimental, patronising, Lady Bountiful tosh that dehumanises and subordinates and others. And yet it seems to be required. This is the only civil liberties movement that has ever actively seemed to want the pats on the head, the special care and treating as if they're much less capable than everyone else and to be treated as pets or poorly children. Disabled people, LGB people, all the other groups, just wanted to be treated exactly the same as others, as rational and competent adults, without prejudice removing equality of access and opportunity.

The problem with pronouns is that some people use sex-based ones, some use gender-based ones, and if you have no idea how to tell what your gender is despite asking genderists on internet forums for years and being ignored, you don't know what you're saying about yourself when you're asked to declare them.

I'm female but if I said "my pronouns are she and her" someone might think I was saying I have a specific gender identity, when I'm not.

If someone could explain how to find out what gender you are, that isn't getting confused with sex, then it'd make it easier.
I'm assuming you're not going to engage enough to explain how one identifies one's gender, @HadalyEve , but maybe you can see why it's impossible for some people to answer clearly and truthfully?

Excellent response. I work for a full on rainbow employer too, and EDI is 90% “support” and “allyship” for T and NB people. Equal access for disabled people is of no interest any more and any mention of it is met with lip service at best, and often there seems to be irritation that it was even being mentioned. My colleague was kicked off a committee after he dared to talk about how we could do better on disability inclusion. They were absolutely focused on courses on “how to be a good ally to T and NB” and the like.

“I’m Sam, no pronouns”

Yet again, suggesting that people lie to keep the fiction going.

But OP doesn’t address how she is going to know their preferred pronouns if the company does as OP asks and bans/stops asking people’s pronouns, as in giving them an opportunity to share them in meetings.

Oh don't worry - every time OP tries to discuss that person's work with other colleagues, they will halt the conversation to correct her.

Everyone in an organisation like that has been trained to rigorously police everyone else's pronoun usage in every single conversation they have, so there is zero chance that a trans or non-binary person who wants to control the way other people refer to them will be misgendered without it being loudly condemned by the rest of the organisation in the name of progress.

The very idea that someone whose preferred pronouns may be different from those associated with their sex wouldnt tell everyone. Repeatedly.

The practicalities should be a given. So sad all the hype and policy is rarely followed up with them.

99.9% of the time you can tell what sex someone is. Even on the phone without ever seeing the person.
(You can often tell who is male by writing style alone!).
So to demand everyone in the room states their pronouns is nothing but a declaration of adherence to a particular ideology, one that is severely detrimental to women, and to demand everyone goes along with it.
No thank you.

Also- by ten years time absolutely no one is going to be "non binary" because it'll be so out of fashion.

I have seen articles by trans people talking about well intentioned non trans people rushing to explain about their pronouns makes the whole thing uncomfortable to them.

If someone I'm meeting for the first time wants to tell me their chosen pronouns, in a situation of polite and reciprocal social contract I'm fine with that. I may use them, I may use their name, I'll certainly avoid intentionally using pronouns they themselves find offensive.

I do not want to be required to chant the Hail Mary or be named a sinner when I'm there to do a job. It would not be appropriate for me to go round the table and demand to know if each person accepts Christ as their saviour with obvious disdain, social consequences and possibly pressure and disciplinary actions for the wrong answer that they have another faith or are atheist. People's politics and faiths need to stay out of other people's faces.

Definitely borrowing your approach for the next bonkers survey we're asked to complete, OP.... despite actually fitting into one of those new nutty categories I wasn't willing to fill in the last one as it didn't have a prefer not to say option. I wouldn't care, but the HR department in charge of this ballox is packed to the rafters with some of the nastiest most self righteous bullies I've ever met.

Preferred pronouns is a 'thing' that has been pushed by those who believe in gender stereotype ideology - to demand that people don't rely on the evidence of their senses and also to see who is a believer in the ideology.

How about this situation:

“Sam completed the site survey and he has highlighted a few issues for us to consider. Over to you Sam”

Sam: Please can you use they/them pronouns for me

Other person in meeting 'Okay. Sam has completed the site survey and they has highlighted a few issues'

In other words, if Sam wants everyone else to change the language used around him, the onus is on him to make that clear. And even if everyone else in the room states their sex based pronouns, Sam is still singling himself out by requesting something other, which is why I don't understand this pronoun push - unless it is for an easy 'inclusion' win.

I have resolved to say I'm opposed to being pressurised nicely or not to stating pronouns because:

If a person is unsure and hasn't come to terms yet, they may feel bullied and coerced into publicly coming out before they feel ready

Or alternatively feel compelled to lie about themselves because they are not ready - which would make them feel worse

And being required to make statement that suggests they follow a belief system they don't share would be problematic. Like requiring an atheist to say 'I believe in God the father etc'

In an introduction round there is nothing to stop someone saying 'My name is Sam, and I'd prefer you to use they/them pronouns for me'.
It doesn't have to be done as a 'Everyone introduce themselves and state your preferred pronouns'.
It is the latter where companies think they are being inclusive but actually it makes a lot of people feel uncomfortable/excluded.

hollow laugh at the ‘no one will mind if you’re asked to declare pronouns and say no I don’t want too’

the type of organisation that is captured enough by gender woo to ask for pronouns at the start of meetings is exactly that sort of organisation that will make a note of people who say no, the sort of organisation who will start suggesting perhaps gently at first that that person needs more training or ‘education’, who will bring it up in annual appraisals. The idea that not going along with verbalising your pronouns if asked in meetings will be seen as a neutral act is extremely disingenuous.

Luckily I don’t have to deal with this nonsense in my daily life.

People are free to ask what my pronouns might be, of course, and I am free to answer that I think that is a ridiculous question.

Tell you what, next work meeting keep a tally of how many times a pronoun is said. It won’t be zero.

Declining to share means you don’t care what pronouns are used which can be for any number of reasons. It doesn’t mean you have no pronouns, it doesn’t mean you are trans or nonbinary, it doesn’t mean you are gender critical. Declining isn’t outing and as it is an option-it isn’t forcing.

Not being allowed to ask is forcing silence.

You do when you are referring to them or introducing them. “Sam completed the site survey and he/she/they has/have highlighted a few issues for us to consider. Over to you Sam”

But you cannot say «no pronouns» and have it mean anything.
pronouns is something we use in language to make it easier to use, it is a grammatical tool.

«I have no pronouns» doesn’t mean anything. Because «you» do!

But you don't use pronouns to people's faces you use their names?

OP says:
”to stop asking people's pronouns in company meetings (pronouns in e-mail are non compulsory….”

”I also said I was happy to work alongside, love and respect trans and non-binary colleagues, including the use of their preferred pronouns”

But OP doesn’t address how she is going to know their preferred pronouns if the company does as OP asks and bans/stops asking people’s pronouns, as in giving them an opportunity to share them in meetings.

So, with not even being allowed to ask for pronouns at the outset, what pronouns would OP use in discourse? She then gets to choose pronouns for others because she’s created a “don’t ask, don’t tell” environment which is de facto exclusionary. It is imposing her beliefs on others.

It’s not an exception. The point is being asked to share pronouns if you want to isn’t forcing and isn’t in any way outing if you decline. The issue is banning even asking pronouns is equivalent to banning even asking do you prefer “Ms or Mrs?”

Well done, OP. A very astute and measured response.

The use of pronouns is enormously unprofessional and potentially damaging to a companies reputation; I'm stunned they are still a thing, tbh. I guess maybe it's hard to roll back once they're out there.