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Original poster

Countering trans suicide figures

181 replies

Walkingtheplank · 03/06/2023 08:19

DD asked I'd we could talk about trans issues/female rights yesterday. All very calm but ultimately we disagree on key points.

She raised the point that trans teens are more like to (try to) commit suicide.

Can anyone add a link here to a article explaining why this is not true so that I can share it with her?

OP posts:
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Ereshkigalangcleg · 04/06/2023 15:03

This is the OP question actually.

She raised the point that trans teens are more like to (try to) commit suicide.

Other people made claims, some of which have been refuted.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 04/06/2023 14:57

The OP question was are transpeople more likely to complete suicide than nontranspeople and that is an academically researched and accepted fact.

It's an additional question, people are interested in the dubious claims made about actual child suicide. Which you don't have any data on, just unreliable self reported studies.

ChopperC110P · 04/06/2023 14:56

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Ereshkigalangcleg · 04/06/2023 14:54

Age at time of suicide, year
18-66

ChopperC110P · 04/06/2023 14:53

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Ereshkigalangcleg · 04/06/2023 14:52

It says the suicide population begins at 18, so in fact your paper has fuck all to do with the question. Thanks for your input.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 04/06/2023 14:50

No, it doesn't help me, because it quite clearly doesn't answer the question.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 04/06/2023 14:49

Also, this is a study ending in 2017. Transgender ideology has become much more widespread since then. Don't you have anything more recent?

ChopperC110P · 04/06/2023 14:49

Perhaps a chart will help you?

Countering trans suicide figures
Ereshkigalangcleg · 04/06/2023 14:48

How does it compare to the general population and other groups of vulnerable children?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 04/06/2023 14:47

I don't care, I asked you to tell me the numbers, which you don't seem able to do so. How many children killed themselves?

ChopperC110P · 04/06/2023 14:46

Ages 4 to 81. Can it be any more clear?

ChopperC110P · 04/06/2023 14:45

Ereshkigalangcleg · 04/06/2023 14:45

It's about adults, so perhaps you could "walk me through" how many children, and how that compares to other groups of children in the Netherlands?

It’s about ALL AGES. Children through adults.

ChopperC110P · 04/06/2023 14:45

Ereshkigalangcleg · 04/06/2023 14:40

So far, despite claiming you had the data, you haven't given anything about the numbers of completed suicides.

You didn’t ask for numbers btw, only evidence that suicide risks were higher? Done that a few times over.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 04/06/2023 14:45

It's about adults, so perhaps you could "walk me through" how many children, and how that compares to other groups of children in the Netherlands?

ChopperC110P · 04/06/2023 14:43

Ereshkigalangcleg · 04/06/2023 14:40

So far, despite claiming you had the data, you haven't given anything about the numbers of completed suicides.

I did, upthread. But apparently you are having trouble reading it so I’ve dug up a nice article for you :) enjoy,

ChopperC110P · 04/06/2023 14:42

Ereshkigalangcleg · 04/06/2023 14:31

That doesn't answer my question. I asked for the rate of completed suicide, because as I pointed out, the attempt rate group is not the same thing.

Here is also an article that walks you through the Netherlands study I had posted upthread that covers all ages and included suicide deaths.
https://www.nationalelfservice.net/mental-health/suicide/suicide-risk-transgender-people/

Basically transpeople have 4x lifetime risk of suicide compared to general population.

Suicide risk in transgender and gender diverse people

Talen Wright explores trends in suicide risk transgender people by drawing on findings from the Amsterdam Cohort of Gender Dysphoria Study.

https://www.nationalelfservice.net/mental-health/suicide/suicide-risk-transgender-people/

Ereshkigalangcleg · 04/06/2023 14:42

As I said, more women attempt suicide, but significantly more men than women complete it.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 04/06/2023 14:41

No, you can't extrapolate completion from attempt. It's misleading.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 04/06/2023 14:40

So far, despite claiming you had the data, you haven't given anything about the numbers of completed suicides.

ChopperC110P · 04/06/2023 14:37

Ereshkigalangcleg · 04/06/2023 14:31

That doesn't answer my question. I asked for the rate of completed suicide, because as I pointed out, the attempt rate group is not the same thing.

The first link fact check answered that as suicide completion is a type of suicide action.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 04/06/2023 14:37

I appreciate that this is a discussion amongst adults looking at the shameful misuse of statistics in relation to vulnerable children but it is still important to bear in mind the consequences for young people of suggesting that suicide goes hand in hand with being part of any group - as the Samaritans point out. Children are not mini adults and the Samaritans repeatedly point out the dangers of social contagion impacting on them:

"Don’t refer to a possible rise in suicides in a specific place or among a particular group as an ‘epidemic’, ‘spate’ or other similar term. Two or more people taking their own lives who, for example, share a similar background, age, or live in a similar geographic area may be a coincidence. Steer clear of implying a connection where there may be none. Evidence suggests that reference to clusters can lead to additional suicides.

Avoid speculation around the causes of a young person’s suicide. For example, when a suicide is reported and bullying is cited as the cause, this could affect other young people experiencing bullying who may be feeling hopeless about their own situation. Making direct links about causes oversimplifies suicide". (bolding mine)

https://media.samaritans.org/documents/Guidance_on_reporting_youth_suicides_and_suicide_clusters_FINAL.pdf

https://media.samaritans.org/documents/Guidance_on_reporting_youth_suicides_and_suicide_clusters_FINAL.pdf

Britinme · 04/06/2023 14:33

How do we disentangle 'mental health issues' and 'having the feeling you're not the gender your biology says you are'?

If (like Rachel Dolezal) I am convinced that I have black and Native American ancestry, despite my DNA showing no such thing, and I use that to try gain privileges reserved to people with black and Native American ancestry (a historically oppressed group, like women), is that a mental health issue or am I just mistaken? Is the tribes rejection of my claim to Native American ancestry on the grounds that my DNA shows no such thing literal violence against my identity or just an assertion that feelings are not the same thing as facts?

Rachel Dolezal - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rachel_Dolezal

Ereshkigalangcleg · 04/06/2023 14:32

As most "trans" children would be LGB, how do the groups compare?

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