"I don't give a shit about the scientific explanations. If they identify as a women, they get to compete in sports"

Do you know what I really love?

paragraphs

ones that logically group the thoughts of posters and break them up for ease of reading

that is all

Really? The IOC has let transgender women compete in the women's category since 2004. Only a handful have ever made it to the Olympics. I would think that given only about 1 to 1,5% of the population is gender dysphoric/transgender, it seems logical that they won't overrun cis gender women in sports. Most have very little interest in it, because it's a reminder of who they were forced to be. But as with everything else, it's easy to call them cheaters when in reality, all they did was follow the rules the sporting bodies set out. And instead of them acknowledging the mistakes they made, of course it's easier to point elsewhere and ban. FYI. you haven't applauded triathlon yet. They created an open category where men can compete against transgender women. All for zero transgender triathletes. That is what a moral panic looks like. Oh, before you consider that a victory: where do you think the men are going to get the prize money from?
Transgender people in sports - Wikipedia
British Triathlon becomes first UK sport to create 'open' category for transgender athletes - BBC Sport

It is doping but we know females can't play catch up. Even the GDR ladies doped to the gills weren't on the same level as men.

Fair point above about the contact sport.

There should only be one ball on the pitch in a game of women's football...

Praching to the choir here @MargotBamborough. But that's the basis on which presumably US coaches avoid being sued for picking transmen on testosterone over men not on testosterone.

They're not men with dangerously low testosterone, they're women who (if not taking cross sex hormones) have the level of testosterone their body is supposed to have.

Thanks for this. It had never occurred to me that taking testosterone makes ftm trans people ineligible to compete in sports. Seems obvious now you've pointed it out.

I think the rule for female athletes on testosterone varies. I was told with derision on twitter a while back that transmen could get a Therapeutic Use Exemption for testosterone in all sport based on the concept that they are men with dangerously low testosterone levels. I certainly read that men (the sex) in the US with low testosterone levels have recently been allowed a TUE in lower level sport but not elite sport. I think that was all about athletics, which might make sense in that 'track and field' is not that big a deal in the US.

This. And in both cases, the problem is patriarchy.

This is what drives me nuts about liberal "feminists" claiming that defining women as female people is patriarchal.

What could be more patriarchal than defining women as people who perform feminine stereotypes and forbidding female people from defining themselves by reference to sex, not gender?

I'm pretty sure they're not. Iszak Henig has complained about this rule.

Not when it's a contact sport.

Transgenderism is like heart attacks: different in men and in women. If one rubric is used to cover either condition in both sexes, women lose out. Every time.

Transgenderism in women appears to be escape from womanhood. In men it appears to be consumption of womanhood.

In women it appears to be a different way of interacting with society. In men it appears to be subversion of society.

Would taking testosterone not be considered doping?

This is not correct. Females who take testosterone and have male gender identity are allowed to compete in the open/men's category.

You are right that they have no chance, but you are wrong that they are not allowed to compete at all.

It's internalised misogyny, often neurodiversity and/or history of abuse, leading to fear of womanhood and a desperate attempt to opt out of it.

Even if they don't actually believe they can be men, I can see how some women might want to reject womanhood to the point where society no longer bothers to judge them according to traditional stereotypes and expectations of women, and they become largely invisible instead. I don't feel that way myself but I can understand the attraction if you were really miserable and uncomfortable in your womanhood.

This in itself is a feminist issue.

Look at the difference between the treatment of transgender males and transgender females in sport.

Transgender males:

Have been allowed to compete in women's sports after taking cross sex hormones, even though their testosterone is still many times higher than that of any woman (even one with a condition such as PCOS) and even though hormone treatment doesn't eliminate the natural physical advantages of having gone through male puberty, thus putting female athletes at a competitive disadvantage.

They therefore get to have their cake and eat it: hormones, and competing in the sporting category of their choice regardless of the impact on female athletes.

Female athletes who object are shamed into silence or accused of transphobia if they dare speak up.

Transgender females:

Are not allowed to compete in any sport at all if they have been taking testosterone because it is a performance enhancing substance, even though their testosterone is still many times lower than that of any man and even though they have not gone through male puberty and are therefore highly unlikely to even be competitive against male athletes, let alone beat them all to the winners' podium.

They therefore have to choose: hormones, or competing in sport, in the women's category. This is despite the fact that there is no impact on male athletes.

Male athletes don't object because they are unaffected.

Do you see it yet?

It's almost as if, whichever impact of gender identity theory is under discussion, and regardless of whether the person or people being discussed identify as men or women, it is always, ALWAYS the ones who were born with a penis who reap the benefits.

I think university sport is a concern to ensure the events at the Oxford Union today. When people watch the Oxford v Cambridge boat race aren't they going to question the sex of female rowers given the student body stance on transgender inclusi on. Won't students round on their university sporting bodies as the epitome of transphobia if they fail to include men in their women's sides?

If they micro dose with testosterone, then I don't see how they can compete in female sports.

Good. This is the honesty that has been lacking.

It's not complicated. There's no science proving it's not a problem. They just don't give a shit.

I hope she shouts this from the rafters.

Yes @BernardBlacksMolluscs that was me! I am shocked.

I was not using inflammatory language, but simply referring to what we know is an aspect of "gender-affirming" care. It is a fact, that the process happens either surgically or medically, if cross-sex or puberty-delaying artificial hormones are used.

Clearly my technical language scared someone!

That lady has so much anger.

I bet she doesn't even truly "give a shit" about trans people either, just about fighting some sort of moral war so that she can feel like she is making history as some amazing social justice warrior.