"Lesbians being anti-trans is a lesbophobic trope"

As far as anyone knows, Jamie Wallis is a straight male.

The ability of a trans woman to use the women's bathrooms.

Why do trans activists always use the Americanism "bathroom"? It sounds twee and affected when British people use it when they mean a public toilet.

MTF trans people are male, and women's toilets and changing rooms (or whatever you mean) are for female people. Surveys show that most women don't want to share female spaces with male bodied people.

I guess that Jamie Wallace is (would have grown up to be) an effeminate gay man who had a shit time from his homophobic dad, rather than a late blooming straight man who shops at 'GAP'. Not that it's any of my business. But in case of the former, I feel quite sorry for him. It's sad to see someone with so much internalised homophobia they assume they must be a woman rather than just accept being a same-sex attracted man.

I agree with this and when transwomen (a minority) tell me they are women (a majority) they are definitely misrepresenting a majority.

Women are not defined by a minority of men. That's a misrepresentation.

When you say a non-exhaustive count of out MPs, what do you mean? As far as I can tell the 15 MPs are an exhaustive list.

Really? Is being out a requirement for office?

But instead we get straight people telling very large numbers of lesbians that they are homophobic because they support trans rights.

Woah another swerve to straight people.

Slippery.

Are you counting Jamie Wallis in the list of lesbian MPs?

Is there anywhere in the wonderful world of statistics that lesbian or bi MPs could be regarded as a representative sample?

'minority views should not be presented as falsely representing a majority' - who has done, this, can you show me where this has been said?

Are you complaining at people using the words 'lesbian and bi women' because they've not prefaced the phrase with 'some'? I'd be very surprised to find ANY issue which ALL lesbians and bi women agree on.

You know when people say something like 'women are concerned about their safety in urban areas at night' it doesn't mean ALL WOMEN EVERYWHERE AT ALL TIMES?

Again, never said minority views don't matter.

But minority views should not be presented as falsely representing a majority view within a community. It's dishonest and its dangerous.

When you say a non-exhaustive count of out MPs, what do you mean? As far as I can tell the 15 MPs are an exhaustive list.

Also, I don't predicate my support for trans rights on the fact that lesbians support them. I simply cite lesbian support levels to rebut the false claims of gender criticals.

If your claim was 'a small number of lesbians agree with us' then I wouldn't have a problem. If your claim was simply 'this particular lesbian agrees with us' I wouldn't have a problem.

But instead we get straight people telling very large numbers of lesbians that they are homophobic because they support trans rights. If you don't see a problem in that, then you're part of the problem.

The ability of a trans woman to use the women's bathrooms.

"Trans women" are in actual fact men who call themselves women. So you're talking about men using women's bathrooms. Which is a violation of boundaries and a blatant disregard of how women feel about these intruders.

The ability of trans kids to not be subjected to conversion therapy.

It's not conversion therapy to gently explore with someone why they've developed a set of false beliefs.

The ability of a trans person to access timely gender related healthcare (and no, right now, unless they can go private they cannot access that).

There's nothing particularly "trans"-specific about that, there are many areas of the NHS that are under strain with huge waiting lists. This needs to be resolved more broadly, not having "trans" picked out as a special case.

So all I'm asking is that those who pretend they are speaking for lesbians generally, or even a large proportion of lesbians, stop doing so.

Why are we pretending and you aren't? You have just explained your evidence is actually your anecdotal story about friends and a non exhaustive count of out MPs.

I'm also not sure why it has to be a majority of lesbians in order for their feelings and opinions to matter.

Aren't you treading on rather dangerous ground there?

Are lesbians allowed to speak for themselves, then?

And are the rest of us allowed to quote lesbians who are speaking for themselves?

Anything that indicates a majority, or even a substantial minority, of lesbians agree with you.

That's not borne out in my circle of friends and acquaintances. But of course that's just anecdote. Hence why it is interesting to look at a defined cohort of lesbians and bi women in a specific role (MP) and discover that 93% of them disagree with gender critical views. That's probably about what it is among the lesbians and bi women I know too. And obviously this thread started with some evidence of younger lesbians also being supportive of trans people.

So all I'm asking is that those who pretend they are speaking for lesbians generally, or even a large proportion of lesbians, stop doing so.

So you are shifting about a bit there Tea?

First it's no evidence, then you have decided that you have evidence.

And now you know it's a small minority?

How do you know?

No, these things aren't rights.

Trans women using women's bathrooms is not a right, it is an infringement of the rights of actual women to have their own single sex spaces that they don't have to share with male people.

Children seeking puberty blockers, cross sex hormones and surgery absolutely should be undergoing comprehensive psychiatric treatment before they are given access to that. This is not "conversion therapy", it is basic safeguarding.

It is very telling that you can't make your point without twisting and distorting the truth in this way.

A small minority one, sure.

If you were making that clear, I wouldn't have an issue.

I did a survey of myself and 100% of the women in this room agreed with me. I asked the dog, but she didn't understand the question.

I don't agree that wanting men, including transwomen, to stay out of women's spaces is the same as anti-trans. So, even gay and bi women who supported the Equality Act debate on the 'GC' side would not necessarily be anti-trans. In fact, of the bits I saw, it was noticeable how the GC side took time to assert how they though trans people should be supported and not discriminated against. I don't recall much reciprocation for the rights of women and girls from the other side.

Transmen who be free to use women's spaces, if they so choose. I believe many lesbians or bi people are open to or are in relationships with transmen.

I've nrtft so sorry if I'm repeating a pp.

My point is merely that contrary to what a lot of people on here say
Many of whom are lesbians and bi women.

, there is no evidence that lesbians and bi women agree with you.

So the lesbians and bi women that agree with each other here are not evidence of lesbian and bo women agreeing?

My point is merely that contrary to what a lot of people on here say, there is no evidence that lesbians and bi women agree with you.

Ten minutes later

I never claimed no lesbian is anti trans.

'there is no evidence that lesbians and bi women agree with you'

What about all the lesbians and bi women who do, though? What actual evidence are you looking for, here?

Just asking people to stop pretending that they are representing some sort of lesbian viewpoint.

We are representing some sort of lesbian viewpoint, as are you.