Page 17 | "Lesbians being anti-trans is a lesbophobic trope"

MerlinsLostMarbles · 2023-05-01T12:36:42+00:00

[[https://www.gaytimes.co.uk/originals/lesbians-are-not-anti-trans https://www.gaytimes.co.uk/originals/lesbians-are-not-anti-trans/]] I think this helps give another viewpoint to the "gay people are anti-trans" trope that is often used by the LGB-Alliance and Julie Bindel etc. Lesbians often have to put up with harmful stereotypes that may deter them from coming out, and in recent years the "lesbians are anti-trans" is another stereotype on top of the existing ones.

reesewitherspork · 01/05/2023 20:31

@Jonei I don't think you understand how attraction works when it comes to well passing, beautiful trans women.

Being straight-splained is making me want to bang my head against a wall so I'm calling this a day, but feel free to continue.

Jonei · 01/05/2023 20:29

Absolutely not. If a man said he was attracted to Valentine Sampaio when he looked at her, would you be calling that man bisexual?

Obviously I would. By simple definition he would be. If he is attracted to women and transwomen then he is bisexual.

I'm not quite sure why you are finding this so hard to understand.

reesewitherspork · 01/05/2023 20:27

Jonei · 01/05/2023 20:25

But it doesn't really matter. Because you've already said you date transwomen and women. But if you did just date lesbians, and felt a rush of a attraction for someone born male, wouldn't you be questioning whether you were actually bisexual yourself?

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Absolutely not. If a man said he was attracted to Valentine Sampaio when he looked at her, would you be calling that man bisexual?

No? Why? Oh, misogyny and it's easy to tell a woman that she's not what she is on an anonymous forum.

AlisonDonut · 01/05/2023 20:26

People who are happy with BOTH SEXES in their dating pool are by definition BISEXUAL. It is the point of having a word - to describe things.

Words mean things, you can't just make up your own definitions.

reesewitherspork · 01/05/2023 20:25

@NecessaryScene I am a lesbian! I've been out and proud for over 25 years ffs.

The dictionary definition seems to be: denoting or relating to women who are sexually or romantically attracted exclusively to other women, or to sexual attraction or activity between women.

I hope that helps?

Jonei · 01/05/2023 20:25

reesewitherspork · 01/05/2023 20:16

No words can describe how patronising and degrading this is. You didn't even address my point:
So if I'm in a bar and I run into Valentina Sampaio (never going to happen I know), and I look at her and feel a rush of attraction, I'm supposed to sadly return to the lesbian card store and return mine?

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But it doesn't really matter. Because you've already said you date transwomen and women. But if you did just date lesbians, and felt a rush of a attraction for someone born male, wouldn't you be questioning whether you were actually bisexual yourself?

NecessaryScene · 01/05/2023 20:21

No idea what your sexual orientation is, but are you really explaining lesbianism to a lesbian?

No, because you're not a lesbian, and because I'm not explaining anything, I'm simply giving my definition of the word.

How do you define it?

ApocalipstickNow · 01/05/2023 20:20

Maybe try the bisexual card store?

reesewitherspork · 01/05/2023 20:16

Jonei · 01/05/2023 20:13

And bearing in mind you said this:

I'd have no problem with dating a trans woman at all, and I have done in the past.

Then you didn't have the lesbian card to return in the first place. Sorry. Up to you who you date. But changing the meaning of words to fit a certain narrative is not up for grabs.

No words can describe how patronising and degrading this is. You didn't even address my point:
So if I'm in a bar and I run into Valentina Sampaio (never going to happen I know), and I look at her and feel a rush of attraction, I'm supposed to sadly return to the lesbian card store and return mine?

reesewitherspork · 01/05/2023 20:14

@NecessaryScene No idea what your sexual orientation is, but are you really explaining lesbianism to a lesbian?

Jonei · 01/05/2023 20:13

And bearing in mind you said this:

I'd have no problem with dating a trans woman at all, and I have done in the past.

Then you didn't have the lesbian card to return in the first place. Sorry. Up to you who you date. But changing the meaning of words to fit a certain narrative is not up for grabs.

NecessaryScene · 01/05/2023 20:12

Indeed - if you think attraction isn't simple, why do you want to use the same word for clearly different types of attraction?

Do you think female-attracted females don't deserve a name?

Jonei · 01/05/2023 20:10

reesewitherspork · 01/05/2023 20:03

@Jonei "Being a lesbian is same sex attracted to born females"

So if I'm in a bar and I run into Valentina Sampaio (never going to happen I know), and I look at her and feel a rush of attraction, I'm supposed to sadly return to the lesbian card store and return mine?

Attraction isn't as simple as you're making out.

I know attraction isn't.

But the meaning of words are pretty straightforward.

reesewitherspork · 01/05/2023 20:03

@Jonei "Being a lesbian is same sex attracted to born females"

So if I'm in a bar and I run into Valentina Sampaio (never going to happen I know), and I look at her and feel a rush of attraction, I'm supposed to sadly return to the lesbian card store and return mine?

Attraction isn't as simple as you're making out.

Jonei · 01/05/2023 19:59

reesewitherspork · 01/05/2023 19:55

@Jonei Nope, not bisexual in the slightest

If you date women, and you're happy to include transwomen in your dating pool, then that, by definition, makes you bisexual. Transwomen are born males. Being a lesbian is same sex attracted to born females. Being willing to date born males and born females = bisexual.

reesewitherspork · 01/05/2023 19:55

@Jonei Nope, not bisexual in the slightest

Jonei · 01/05/2023 19:54

ridiculous to say 'no lesbian would date a trans woman' because I'm living proof that's not the case

You're not living proof of that at all. If you are happy to date transwomen, then you would be bisexual. Not a lesbian.

reesewitherspork · 01/05/2023 19:53

NB: When I say 'there's no science to same sex attraction', I don't mean that it's not scientifically proven, I mean that I'm attracted to Valentina Sampaio and my brain doesn't look at her and only see chromosomes.

So I agree with the article. It sums up how I feel.

reesewitherspork · 01/05/2023 19:50

I'm a lesbian, came out when I was about 16, and have only dated women.

I'd have no problem with dating a trans woman at all, and I have done in the past. There's no science to 'same sex attraction', because there's so many variations to the human body. Granted the woman I dated was post-op for everything and I may not be compatible with the opposite, but it's ridiculous to say 'no lesbian would date a trans woman' because I'm living proof that's not the case. Some lesbians may be cool with dating trans women with penises, and that's nobodies business but theirs because attraction is complicated.

I've been on dating apps for years and I've never once felt forced to 'like penis', and neither have any of my friends. A few tik toks and a tweet here cannot be used as evidence of a 'growing trend'.

If I see a trans woman on a dating app who I'm not attracted to, I swipe left. It's as simple as that. Dating apps these days are curated so no one has to speak to anyone they don't want to.

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 01/05/2023 19:18

@SquidwardBound and @FlirtsWithRhinos - 👏👏👏👏

FlirtsWithRhinos · 01/05/2023 19:07

@SquidwardBound 👏👏👏

FlirtsWithRhinos · 01/05/2023 19:06

rattymol · 01/05/2023 18:46

Most lesbians do not want to have sex with men. But it's the straight women largely who are anti trans.

Do you mean "anti trans", or do you mean "want to be recognised as distinct from male people and deserving of their own political voice to tell their own story and campaign for their own social and political needs" - or do you see those two things as the same?

SquidwardBound · 01/05/2023 18:55

I think the phrase ‘anti-trans’ is ridiculous.

Not including trans women within the category of lesbian is not anti-trans.
Not wanting to have sex with biological males however they’d like you to perceive them, is not anti-trans.
Wanting to compete in a female sex category in a sporting competition is not anti-trans.
Not viewing trans women as female is not anti trans.
thinking that prisons, hospital wards and changing rooms should be single sex is not anti-trans.

The term anti-trans is used to demonise and distract.

howdoesatoastermaketoast · 01/05/2023 18:55

oOiluvfriendsOo · 01/05/2023 18:44

Let's try and clear something up......I'm a lesbian, i'm an adult human female that is attracted only to adult human females.
There are no other types of lesbians, no man pretending to be a woman or trans woman can be a lesbian no matter how much they scream and stamp their feet like a 2 year old.

This nonsense needs to be put to bed.

I feel sorry for genuine trans people who are just living their life quietly and without drama.

This

howdoesatoastermaketoast · 01/05/2023 18:53

JanesLittleGirl · 01/05/2023 18:42

@howdoesatoastermaketoast That will teach me to be specific when I ask a question. By lesbian I meant female and lesbian. You have given two examples of transwomen and a wife coerced into accepting the label of lesbian.

Oh quite ISWYM, nope not at all. In fact the new cool ones seem to be fleeing the word like the house is on fire

You see it's totally ok to be the kind of afab transman that only wants to sleep with afab transman, afab enbies and cis lesbians. AND THAT'S WHY (imho) most of the other young lesbians are so ok with 'trans people' who the hell else are they gonna sleep with...

Course there is still something of a pattern in who they're into to

#party with the kids who wanna party with you