"Lesbians being anti-trans is a lesbophobic trope"

Sounds like discrimination to me. Discrimination against lesbians.

Again, this isn't something that's being said to gay men who are open to dating passing trans men.

And again, men who exclusively date transmen are straight.

Reece you said:

i'm a lesbian, came out when I was about 16, and have only dated womem

And you also said this (in the same post):

I'd have no problem with dating a trans woman at all, I have done in the past

Hence, you are bisexual. Because lesbians are same sex attracted. And you are attracted to women (same sex) and transwoman (born male).

The meaning of words are important. I don't care what you tell yourself you are. But I'm not going to lie and change the meaning of words because that makes you feel better somehow.

It's not just "TERFs" they don't want apparently.

They don't want anyone willing to say, "biological females only".

They are saying it's "hateful" to be same sex attracted.

Do you agree with that or not?

@Jonei just saying the same thing over and over again without responding to any of my points doesn't make you right

It simply means they are bisexual.
No big deal.
You seem to have a massive issue with that.

Responding to "If the transwoman did pass superficially, and the male was initially attracted to them genuinely believing they were female, then no. But if they went on to discover they were actually born male, and were still attracted to them, then yes" but this applies to all posts saying similar things

Attraction isn't something you can control and it doesn't go away when you hear that someone wasn't born female. That would imply that it's conscious, and that somehow your attraction changes when you learn that it doesn't fit into a specific definition of your identity (that TW are not W).

Implying that this new information (that person was born male) should change someone's attraction is dodgy territory, as it's implying that it's a conscious choice.

Again, this isn't something that's being said to gay men who are open to dating passing trans men. Somehow its only lesbians who date passing trans women who seem to get slack and our identities questioned. I'd like to reiterate that this is misogyny.

No it's not transphobic for a lesbian to not want to date someone with a penis. But it's also never okay for women's identities to be policed. It goes both ways.

As I said, I've been out and proud for over 20 years and I've never, ever been told by another woman 'you are bisexual', partly because anyone who meets me knows what a big lesbian (not sure how mumsnet feels about the d word, don't want to risk this getting deleted, but hopefully you know what word I mean) I am. Yet 5 minutes active on mumsnet today and I'm told this.

Tell me again who is erasing the identities of lesbians?

Her is advertised as a lesbian app.

You are saying women uncomfortable with this should opt out? So men have taken another female space and filled it with male type behaviours and this is acceptable?
Sexual orientation AND women are protected characteristics. That is the law. Men should not be allowed to act as they do.

On principle I would not opt out in the way I do physically as online they can't physically touch us. But there are hardly any women left anyway I gave up months ago.

I am unaware of any dating app that is gender critical or supports gender critical beliefs. Saying go elsewhere when there isn't elsewhere shows how little respect you have for lesbian women

well I don't want to go on HER but I do want it to be a clear and universally accepted fact that sexual orientation is (also) a protected characteristic under the equality act of 2010 and if a company wants to tweet that all customers (with this protected characteristic) are (insult) and should never darken their doorstep again they leave themselves in an extremely actionable position.

Maybe women were drawn to it because it misrepresents itself as a site for lesbians. Which is clearly isn't if it includes those born male, and prioritises that over actual lesbians.

Accusations of being "transphobic" is just yet another tactic used to try to subjugate women. It should either be ignored, or defiantly agreed with.

@MerlinsLostMarbles not trying to be a jerk but you seem to have gone from 'this never happens' to doing it yourself in one thread.

"Are you allowed to say on your profile, "I'm only interested in biological females"? That wouldn't make you a "TERF" right? "

I believe that that is exactly the sort of thing they were saying wasn't tolerated and would never be acceptable to them

You asked for examples of women being called transphobic for expressing their same-sex attraction. The article has several relevant examples. It seems you've shifted the goalpost. Did you read the article? Do you accept there are women who have been labeled transphobic for expressing their same-sex attraction?

Are you allowed to say on your profile, "I'm only interested in biological females"?

That wouldn't make you a "TERF" right?

Nope. You are wrong.

My experience was I was rudely pushed and pressured to date men. It was insidiously hostile towards my boundaries. I never once put my gender critical beliefs in my profile or gave it as the reason I didn't want to talk to them. But they don't accept a polite "doom not interested"

There was some polling from 2018:

https://www.them.us/story/cis-trans-dating

"Virtually all heterosexuals excluded trans folks from their dating pool: only 1.8% of straight women and 3.3% of straight men chose a trans person of either binary gender. But most non-heterosexuals weren’t down for dating a trans person either, with only 11.5% of gay men and 29% of lesbians being trans-inclusive in their dating preferences....

38% of trans-inclusive lesbians said they wouldn’t date a trans woman — only a trans man."

So while lesbians mostly aren't interested in "girl dick", this polling does have them as being more "trans inclusive" than other groups. Whether this is actually seen in real life, I don't know.

I don't see how that poster suddenly isn't a lesbian for dating a person who appears as a woman, even with their clothes off?

Lesbians are born women. A male identifying as a woman, who has also had surgery to try and make them present superficially as a woman, isnt a lesbian.

Well yes.

The poster raised a good point - if a man sees a TW presenting with all the normal visible female characteristics and finds that attractive without immediately noticing they are actually a TW, is that man suddenly bisexual?

If the transwoman did pass superficially, and the male was initially attracted to them genuinely believing they were female, then no. But if they went on to discover they were actually born male, and were still attracted to them, then yes.

The infamous 'can't tell'.... speaking as a Lesbian the transwomen (men) in my social group looked like large men in wigs with Adams apples, brow ridges, big hands and feet; a small child could tell they were men.

The killing note is that they behaved exactly like demanding self-absorbed males, not caring the least bit how we women felt!

Ah I think I understand the position we are supposed to adopt in order to be compliant, non-hateful and non-transphobic.

We are not allowed to talk about, or have words to describe, genital preferences for the type of body for the persons we have sex with. Having such words, or wanting such words is wrong. Quite literally the love that dares not speak its name.

Which is not to say we have to actually have sex with the people who don't fit our preferences, we just can't say we have such preferences, or do anything to pre-filter the people we date to rule out the ones we know we won't be interested in. Or have social events at which we will be more likely to be able to readily meet the people we might want to go further with, by excluding those who have no chance.

Complaining about this is transphobic.

The original article is reporting the good news that a lot of people have given up fighting the inexorable victory of this new mindset.

The purpose of the article is to make each woman who isn't happy about it feel more isolated, more afraid to object, more shamed and uncertain of her right to have a word to describe her sexual orientation.

In the example given the TW 'passed' and was post surgery.

I don't see how that poster suddenly isn't a lesbian for dating a person who appears as a woman, even with their clothes off?

Of course there's all sorts of other stuff going on underneath that makes that person not an actual woman but if we're talking only about pure physical attraction - if it walks like a duck and looks like a duck?

The poster raised a good point - if a man sees a TW presenting with all the normal visible female characteristics and finds that attractive without immediately noticing they are actually a TW, is that man suddenly bisexual?