The Women's Institute faces revolt ...

Strange that, cos I’ve been in breastfeeding conversations at WI - and have breastfed there. Petra isn’t the only TW in the WI however Petra appears to be in the WI purely to push trans issues and doesn’t join in with any other conversations on the UWI group. It’s just a bit creepy tbh.

I’m a member

I don’t want men there. I go because I want to be with women

if I wanted to be a member of a mixed sex group, I’d join one

I don't think WI discuss breastfeeding. What a fuss about nothing. One trans person has joined the WI. And a great pile on of folk on here condemning it. Most of whom probably aren't even members.

When I was in the WI the unofficial group were strictly #nodebate and deleted or turned off all discussion of gender critical posts - even ones unrelated to membership but on women's hospital wards etc.

Glad that debate is allowed now.

With this being in the news, is the WI likely to get an increase in applications from women? Or is it more likely to attract people like Miss Gripper?

Little bit more info on this person. They have had multiple accounts in twiitter as they keep making violent threats and getting banned.

""Miss Gripper" is Shanu Varma. He has been reported to the police before and @JeanHatchet won a case against him.
We suggest a report to @TerrorismPolice @ukhomeoffice
His threats are escalating."

https://twitter.com/ForWomenScot/status/1648565520877121536?t=brqF1rZH7hEpJDV8l50uaQ&s=19

My understanding of the Haldane judgment is that no, they currently can't be excluded as they are legally female.

If WI was a service or public function then they could exclude tw with a GRC if they could show it was a proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim - but those rules don't apply to associations.

If we get the amendment clarifying that sex in the EA means biological sex then they could be excluded.

From Baroness Falkner's letter:

Freedom of association for women and men. Schedule 16 para 1 permits the restriction of membership to persons who share a protected characteristic.

Currently the law does not allow the exclusion of trans people who hold a GRC from an association whose membership is restricted on the basis of sex. For instance, on the current definition of sex, a women’s social club or religious organisation (if it met the definition of an association: see Section 107 and explanatory notes) could not restrict membership to biological women. It would have to admit any trans woman who had obtained a GRC. There is no provision in law for the association to exclude them. This has an impact on freedom of association for women.

A change in the law would allow sex-based associations to restrict membership on the basis of biological sex.

https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/our-work/news/clarifying-definition-%E2%80%98sex%E2%80%99-equality-act

(Link to the full letter is in 'Notes to editors' on the above page)

Here's Bel Mooney's offering on the subject:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-11987807/Strong-women-raison-detre-Womens-Institute.html

Currently the Facebook page run by the magazine WI Life is asking how local groups are 'planning to celebrate Pride month' and suggesting they 'get in touch with your local LGBTQ+ organisations and find out how you can join this June'.

But why on earth should members of the Women's Institute care anything about Pride month (an American import) and its frequently provocative displays of LGBTQ+ activism often in the shape of glitter, rainbows, drag queens, leather-fetishism and other sorts of semi-sexual posturing in the streets?

Well, this is going well...

We think we've progressed but we are just fighting the same battles against a more devious opponent.

@EsmaCannonball depressing but so very true.

We have a men’s club in our village. It’s called the working men’s club and women cannot join. We are allowed to visit as an invited guest. Seems no one has a problem with that. Yet women have a group and we are expected to let men in to be kind. Some women do not have a network of friends or they may be new to the area. They may need support, friendship and safety from women. Not men. Not transwomen whose experiences are different. Why do we keep being expected just to roll over? It might be the WI but when all the senior positions on management boards are full of men and TW it will be too late to complain and say that women are excluded.

@Blort you’re not on the Unofficial WI group on FB are you? Lots of posts supporting trans and someone this morning claiming the anti-trans movement is funded by extreme right wingers. Latest post with links claiming sex is not binary. I am in the WI, I’ve been in for about 13 years now since I was pregnant. I love meeting a wide range of women and learning from the speakers we have. It’s a small village WI and the trans issue hasn’t affected us yet. Am about to renew my subs and it’s the policies that make me feel a bit meh about that, but I value the single sex environment and the friendship I encounter at our monthly meetings.

If a Trans woman has a GRC certificate and is Female on their birth certificate, can they be excluded under current law?

No they don't. Schedule 16 does not even require a legitimate aim.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/schedule/16

From the explanatory notes:

This paragraph allows an association whose main purpose is to bring together people who share a particular characteristic (such as a particular nationality, sexual orientation or a particular disability) to continue to restrict membership to such people, and impose similar restrictions on those who can exercise the rights of an associate, or who can be invited as guests.

Having the protected characteristic of Gender Reassignment does not mean you must be treated as the opposite sex.

Amen to that.

Bingo.

How many of the agist sexist comments in here have been to a WI meeting?

It's not all jam and Jerusalem. It's a woman's campaining organisation, social group and local activists groups in one. The WI have helped champion some amazing campaigns like Keep Britain Tidy.

In my WI we discussed held self defence class, did pole dancing together, had a pelvic floor training session, fundraised for our local women's refuge. Talked about many issues intimately - babies, breastfeeding, period poverty, incontinence, woman's mental health crisis, ADHD and ASD in women, the suffragist movement.

We celebrated the women in our community, gave them a place to have a voice. Supported local female businesses and creators.

I'm sick to the back teeth, even in this forum about asking why we shouldn't just become mixed sex. We don't fucking want to and we don't fucking need to.

Bit womanly ffs

They could be the MWI.. men and wankers institute. Or the peoples institute. Or the people who may feel a boy womanly institute, or the people who believe in sexist stereotypes institute. If they’re letting men in, they’re not the womens institute any more are they….

So I am wondering …. will the WI now propose a change of name to the WATWI?

I wonder how keen TW would be to join the WI if it became a boring old mixed sex organisation? Or if their local branch became all TW?

I always remember what Datun says - it’s the women in the space that makes the space attractive to TW. Without the women, there’s no validation & it becomes meaningless.