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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Suella Braverman thread 2

354 replies

AdamRyan · 06/04/2023 08:52

As we filled up thread one eith our battling over whether it's feminist or racist to support Suella Braverman's weekend statements, I thought another would be good.

Here's some of what she said:

"What's clear is what we've seen is a practice whereby vulnerable white English girls, sometimes who are in care, sometimes in challenging circumstances, being pursued and raped and drugged and harmed by gangs of British Pakistani men who've worked in child abuse rings or networks. We've seen institutions and state agencies, whether it's social workers, teachers, the police turn a blind eye to these signs of abuse out of political correctness, out of fear of being called racist, out of fear of being called bigoted. And as a result, thousands, we are not talking small numbers, we are talking large numbers, thousands of children have had their childhoods robbed and devastated. And there are many of these perpetrators still running wild, behaving in this way. And it's now down to the authorities to track these perpetrators down, without fear or favour, relentlessly and bring them to justice"

Sunak has since rowed back on this and the Home Offices own research suggests there is not enough quality research to say any particular ethnicity is disproportionately involved in "grooming gangs"

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EndlessTea · 06/04/2023 16:09

Maybe I can be snippy. But that comment wasn’t it.

EndlessTea · 06/04/2023 16:07

BewareTheLibrarians · 06/04/2023 16:05

Sorry, you’re calling someone snippy? 😂 After you just called people “willfully stupid”? If you don’t like being called out on it, don’t shoehorn anti trans rhetoric into posts about female victims of rape and grooming.

I would call my self blunt and perhaps rude, but not snippy.

EndlessTea · 06/04/2023 16:05

BewareTheLibrarians · 06/04/2023 16:03

So a trans activist (have I got that right? No idea) is forcing the police to ignore crimes committed by British Pakistani men. Because… ?

Do you think that Mermaids are the only activist group which have been offering D&I training to our public servants?

NotHavingIt · 06/04/2023 16:05

AdamRyan · 06/04/2023 08:52

As we filled up thread one eith our battling over whether it's feminist or racist to support Suella Braverman's weekend statements, I thought another would be good.

Here's some of what she said:

"What's clear is what we've seen is a practice whereby vulnerable white English girls, sometimes who are in care, sometimes in challenging circumstances, being pursued and raped and drugged and harmed by gangs of British Pakistani men who've worked in child abuse rings or networks. We've seen institutions and state agencies, whether it's social workers, teachers, the police turn a blind eye to these signs of abuse out of political correctness, out of fear of being called racist, out of fear of being called bigoted. And as a result, thousands, we are not talking small numbers, we are talking large numbers, thousands of children have had their childhoods robbed and devastated. And there are many of these perpetrators still running wild, behaving in this way. And it's now down to the authorities to track these perpetrators down, without fear or favour, relentlessly and bring them to justice"

Sunak has since rowed back on this and the Home Offices own research suggests there is not enough quality research to say any particular ethnicity is disproportionately involved in "grooming gangs"

Why have you called this thread 'Suella Braverman?

It seem you just want to use it to grind an axe, and you have no interest in women's rights or the sorts of discussion this forum was created for.

I'd caution others from getting involved, it will end up with posts being reported no doubt.

BewareTheLibrarians · 06/04/2023 16:05

Sorry, you’re calling someone snippy? 😂 After you just called people “willfully stupid”? If you don’t like being called out on it, don’t shoehorn anti trans rhetoric into posts about female victims of rape and grooming.

EndlessTea · 06/04/2023 16:04

BewareTheLibrarians · 06/04/2023 15:59

Who is discouraging police and MI5 for political reasons? Genuine question, I’m not disagreeing with you.

Because that’s surely one of the absolute first things that would need to be tackled. Who is giving these orders and why. Why do people feel compelled to follow them. Do those orders conflict with or support the misogyny and classism that lead to victims being disbelieved or disregarded?

Because logically, the Home Office is in charge of the police. If so have those orders been coming from the Home Office?

In this article I linked to upthread, they touch upon the culture that leads to the double standards https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/uk-counter-terrorism-strategy-needs-refocus-islamism-review-2023-02-08/

UK counter-terrorism strategy needs to refocus on Islamism -review

Britain's counter-terrorism programme "Prevent" must refocus its efforts more on the threat posed by militant Islamism after becoming too concerned with right-wing extremism, an independent review of the often-criticised strategy concluded on Wednesday...

https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/uk-counter-terrorism-strategy-needs-refocus-islamism-review-2023-02-08/

BewareTheLibrarians · 06/04/2023 16:03

So a trans activist (have I got that right? No idea) is forcing the police to ignore crimes committed by British Pakistani men. Because… ?

EndlessTea · 06/04/2023 16:02

BewareTheLibrarians · 06/04/2023 15:59

Who is discouraging police and MI5 for political reasons? Genuine question, I’m not disagreeing with you.

Because that’s surely one of the absolute first things that would need to be tackled. Who is giving these orders and why. Why do people feel compelled to follow them. Do those orders conflict with or support the misogyny and classism that lead to victims being disbelieved or disregarded?

Because logically, the Home Office is in charge of the police. If so have those orders been coming from the Home Office?

D&I consultants. For example Susie Green of Mermaids got an award from MI5 and had a fantastic relationship with the police.

EndlessTea · 06/04/2023 16:00

BewareTheLibrarians · 06/04/2023 15:55

I don’t think “Bravo” would be my choice of words for someone who’s responded to two posts which focused on the need for prevention and victim support (one by one of the victims herself) by shoehorning in unrelated comments but I guess we’re all different.

A little snippy emotional manipulation to go with your afternoon tea.

BewareTheLibrarians · 06/04/2023 15:59

EndlessTea · 06/04/2023 15:54

Child predators not from ‘one background’, NSPCC tells Home Secretary

Yes we fucking know. We are not thick. We know that there are all sorts of predators. The issue is, police and MI5 are being discouraged from going after offenders from ‘one background’ for political reasons.

From the press release, the NSPCC are clearly in on this discouragement. They sing from the same hymn sheet as the rest of the stat-massaging ideologues.

Who is discouraging police and MI5 for political reasons? Genuine question, I’m not disagreeing with you.

Because that’s surely one of the absolute first things that would need to be tackled. Who is giving these orders and why. Why do people feel compelled to follow them. Do those orders conflict with or support the misogyny and classism that lead to victims being disbelieved or disregarded?

Because logically, the Home Office is in charge of the police. If so have those orders been coming from the Home Office?

EndlessTea · 06/04/2023 15:58

I am so fed up with the wilful stupidity.

Saying a specific minority of people are treated as a sacred caste by the police is not the same as saying that group are responsible for the majority of offending.

BewareTheLibrarians · 06/04/2023 15:55

I don’t think “Bravo” would be my choice of words for someone who’s responded to two posts which focused on the need for prevention and victim support (one by one of the victims herself) by shoehorning in unrelated comments but I guess we’re all different.

EndlessTea · 06/04/2023 15:54

Child predators not from ‘one background’, NSPCC tells Home Secretary

Yes we fucking know. We are not thick. We know that there are all sorts of predators. The issue is, police and MI5 are being discouraged from going after offenders from ‘one background’ for political reasons.

From the press release, the NSPCC are clearly in on this discouragement. They sing from the same hymn sheet as the rest of the stat-massaging ideologues.

ilovesooty · 06/04/2023 15:47

IClaudine · 06/04/2023 09:40

Thanks endlesstea will track it down.

I honestly don't think Braverman is sincere about this. I think she is using this to score political points. When did the Tories ever give a toss about vulnerable, disadvantaged young people from deprived backgrounds?

Let's see if the Home Office actually does anything meaningful to tackle grooming gangs.

I agree.

She shouldn't even be in office anyway.

BewareTheLibrarians · 06/04/2023 15:45

EndlessTea · 06/04/2023 15:36

I completely agree that more needs to be done around prevention and victim support, but when they start making political points about how the Home Secretary should do her job, I think they should stick to theirs.

Their job - which includes victim support and understanding of prevention, which makes them very well placed offer advice to the government.

The situation in your last post is batshit crazy. But the link I posted is a different person within the organisation taking about a different topic that is - and here’s the important point - very important and in no way controversial.

I mean, one conservative mp was arrested on suspicion of sexually abusing boys. Does that mean the entire party needs to stand down?

Teentaxidriver · 06/04/2023 15:43

Bravo Endlesstea - you are completely right.

EndlessTea · 06/04/2023 15:40

I mean an NSPCC representative called parents ‘homophobic’ for being concerned about a bloke taking his fetish to work, creating porn, linking his work profile to it and non-judgmentally giving his account of being groomed into it by older men.

EndlessTea · 06/04/2023 15:37

Too many dodgy arrogant twats with political agendas acting as spokespeople for charities.

EndlessTea · 06/04/2023 15:36

I completely agree that more needs to be done around prevention and victim support, but when they start making political points about how the Home Secretary should do her job, I think they should stick to theirs.

EndlessTea · 06/04/2023 15:34

there’s people

One person. Me.

Don’t work yourself up and start extrapolating.

BewareTheLibrarians · 06/04/2023 15:32

Hmm. On the previous thread there were some comments about people (in wider society) being woke to the point that they were scared to accuse British Pakistani men of rape.

Here, there’s people being so tied to their anti-trans ideology that they appear to disregard the very valid call from the NSPCC for prevention and victim support.

The important thing here is stronger prevention. The justice system actually prosecuting rape. An understanding of what trafficking and abuse looks like. A better understanding of who is at risk and why. Support for the victims of trafficking (which the government has just removed). Meaningful support for the victims of grooming gangs and abuse.

Looking forward to seeing which point in this post will be picked apart and which will continue to be ignored.

EndlessTea · 06/04/2023 15:13

Transactivist nobbers blight the whole charity sector, courtesy of well-paid D&I consultants.

EndlessTea · 06/04/2023 15:09

Howpo · 06/04/2023 15:08

I don’t trust the NSPCC anymore. They are as captured as everyone else

Captured? what do you mean? Why don't you trust them?

I think the NSPCC do amazing work, though TBH i don't Child Protection should be done by a charity.

Trans activists.

Howpo · 06/04/2023 15:08

I don’t trust the NSPCC anymore. They are as captured as everyone else

Captured? what do you mean? Why don't you trust them?

I think the NSPCC do amazing work, though TBH i don't Child Protection should be done by a charity.

Howpo · 06/04/2023 15:05

Boomboom22 · 06/04/2023 09:37

Thing is though, you can't deny this has happened. And yes white grooming gang exist but they don't have this specific issue of policing that fear of racism leads woke social services and police and la to say 13-16 year old white working class girls are choosing to be prostitutes and adult Pakistani men are their bf. They knew for years and ignored parents. It is because of fear of racism. It is.

sound like you Don't believe this happens and the authorities know and knew.

Yes this has happened, is happening, no one has said it has not.

But thats the Govt's job to stop it, they didn't, they protected Saville too and he wasn't from Pakistan, the Police protected the killers of Stephen Lawrence too.

As i said on the previous thread, i think the authorities hide behind "racism", i think the real reason is found in the recorded comments of that senior Met Officer who said 99% of rape claims were regretful sex/to hide cheating etc.

Some in authority (& it is some, not all) see these girls as beyond the pale, not worthy of help, they simply can't be bothered, same as they don't pursue rape and other sexual assaults.

I'm sre there are well meaning but misguided people in other areas that do nothing because of cultural sensitivities but the Police are not bound by such things, they follow the law and are answerable to the GOvt of the day.

I also wonder what made Braverman decide to talk on this issue and what will actually happen?