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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Suella Braverman thread 2

354 replies

AdamRyan · 06/04/2023 08:52

As we filled up thread one eith our battling over whether it's feminist or racist to support Suella Braverman's weekend statements, I thought another would be good.

Here's some of what she said:

"What's clear is what we've seen is a practice whereby vulnerable white English girls, sometimes who are in care, sometimes in challenging circumstances, being pursued and raped and drugged and harmed by gangs of British Pakistani men who've worked in child abuse rings or networks. We've seen institutions and state agencies, whether it's social workers, teachers, the police turn a blind eye to these signs of abuse out of political correctness, out of fear of being called racist, out of fear of being called bigoted. And as a result, thousands, we are not talking small numbers, we are talking large numbers, thousands of children have had their childhoods robbed and devastated. And there are many of these perpetrators still running wild, behaving in this way. And it's now down to the authorities to track these perpetrators down, without fear or favour, relentlessly and bring them to justice"

Sunak has since rowed back on this and the Home Offices own research suggests there is not enough quality research to say any particular ethnicity is disproportionately involved in "grooming gangs"

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ChristinaXYZ · 07/04/2023 16:24

IClaudine · 06/04/2023 09:30

My question is this. Why does Braverman suddenly pretend to care about these children, just a few weeks before the May elections? Why has the Home Office not take action on this issue for the past13 years?

In part you answer your own question - the Home Office does (in theory) what the minister asks. Braverman has only been home sec for 5 minutes. she is not persoanlly responsible for what the Home Office was doing previously.

Previous honme secretaries including Pritti Patel have also tried to deal with some of the issues raised by the grooming gangs. Back in April 2021 Patel was trying to get some of the Rochdale grooming gang deported after their sentances. Five minutes on google and you can see she was raising the matter earlier than that too.

It is very clear that this is not just a few weeks before the elections. You are just wrong about that.

Persoanlly I think there is a cultural difference in attidues to women in men from conservative religious backgrounds or who are from commitees who have moved here from countries with conservative attitudes to women.

Numerically white men are most like to be abusers of course, most people in this country are white. But there is evidence from Home Office reports that the number of men from a south asiain background who are "over-represented" (Home Office's word) in these acts.

It is also obvious that they, unlike white men, are less likely to be investigated or called to account. They victimes of asian gangs are more likely therefore to be let down by the authorities and that is a bloody scandal.

We can't just say more white men do this, if you're being abused by a white guy we'll investigate but if its an asian guy we won't.

As I said in a post on another thread: if you're angry or concerned about the treatment of women and girls in Afghanistan or Iran, caused by conservative religious beliefs in action, and you can see that and yet wilful won't see the problem here then you're a colluding, bloody hypocrite so bothered about having a dig at the Tories that you would rather score fake political points that actaully be any use to the victims.

Patel was right, Braverman is right.

AdamRyan · 07/04/2023 13:09

Flowerly · 07/04/2023 09:30

No 'implication' in that tweet Adam. It's a very bold claim presented as fact and will get them in to all sorts of bother (which they richly deserve).

I doubt it given the kind of absolute bollocks politicians of all persuasions put on posters
£350m for the NHS anyone?
Braverman saying 100 million people are planning to come to the UK and maybe up to a billion?

People think the conservatives are good for women are idiots in my opinion. That doesn't make me a misogynist Grin

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Flowerly · 07/04/2023 09:30

No 'implication' in that tweet Adam. It's a very bold claim presented as fact and will get them in to all sorts of bother (which they richly deserve).

Whaeanui · 07/04/2023 09:27

It’s not an implication. It says he doesn’t think they belong in prison. That’s not true. They could highlight the faults in their policies or stats showing perceived incompetency but to state that is his view is absolutely wrong.

But I’ve just seen how you talk about this board elsewhere and find it so disgusting I won’t engage with an obvious bad faith poster again.

*AdamRyan · 03/04/2023 20:40
I've just got annoyed by FWR refusing to vote for starmer because he "doesn't know what a woman is"
Based on him saying his position is trabs rights shouldn't overrule womens rights

I know wedont discuss trans stuff on this thread but it's like turkeys voting for Xmas again. Just like Brexit

I'm GC for the record but also not an idiot who thinks a party of Braverman, Rees Mogg and Johnson will be good for women*

We’re idiots? You’re a misogynist.

AdamRyan · 07/04/2023 09:23

Whaeanui · 07/04/2023 09:16

I’m talking about the Labour ad you think is fair enough

What bit do you think is "false"? The numbers or the implication?

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Whaeanui · 07/04/2023 09:16

I’m talking about the Labour ad you think is fair enough

AdamRyan · 07/04/2023 09:15

I didn't say it was false, I said it was unproven suspicion.

If you have "facts" showing that Pakistani grooming gangs are the biggest risk to uk children, or that cracking down on them will make a significant difference to CSA rates, I'd love to see them.

Why are you so invested in this being "fact"?

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Whaeanui · 07/04/2023 09:10

Fair enough? It’s false. Clearly false. Ffs you just don’t care about facts do you.

AdamRyan · 07/04/2023 09:06

Although I think that advert is fair enough. The Conservatives have done fuck all about tackling child abuse.

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Flowerly · 07/04/2023 09:06

Have you seen the tweet?

AdamRyan · 07/04/2023 09:05

Braverman said nothing about supporting victims. It was all about perpetrators.
I continue to be interested in why cracking down on perpetrators of rape is a priority when "Pakistani grooming gangs" are involved, yet rape generally is effectively decriminalised.

If Braverman was genuinely caring about the victims she'd have announced some packages to actually support victims.

She didn't because she's setting herself up as "saying unpopular truths" whereas actually she's saying unproven suspicions to appeal to racists, stoke up racial division and hopefully stop the red wall collapsing in the Brexity areas.

And Starmer is irrelevant to this. Labour haven't been in power for 13 years.

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Flowerly · 07/04/2023 08:48

Excellent post mirax.

Starmer has made a massive error here - it's almost beyond belief tbh.

mirax · 07/04/2023 04:33

Grammarnut · 06/04/2023 17:25

Not sure why this thread has been restarted. It seems to be that some people want to deny that some cultures are particularly misogynistic and that importing them into a liberal culture causes problems. This attitude seems perverse. The emphasis ought to be on the women and girls who are victims, and also in working to end the causes of their abuse, not complaining that targeting those carrying out the abuse is racist ffs.

Denial and obfuscation. Same as ever. The British middle class is cognitively and emotionally removed from the working class victims of the grooming gangs.
Also Labour has styled itself the Law and Order party and its minions are busy setting up the scene. Pity that Starmer has crashed into the scenery with the latest advert utilising child SA victims. Universal revulsion.
twitter.com/UKLabour/status/1643973886311297028?s=20

Howpo · 06/04/2023 18:56

I don't recall anyone saying anything of the sort, just that if you want to stop this crime, probably best not to start with calling out Pakistani men when the issues are far more widespread.

Its an interesting topic, the attitude the authorities seem to have towards CSA is very worrying, in fact sexual abuse full stop seems to be tolerated whoever does it and on whom.

Grammarnut · 06/04/2023 17:25

Not sure why this thread has been restarted. It seems to be that some people want to deny that some cultures are particularly misogynistic and that importing them into a liberal culture causes problems. This attitude seems perverse. The emphasis ought to be on the women and girls who are victims, and also in working to end the causes of their abuse, not complaining that targeting those carrying out the abuse is racist ffs.

EndlessTea · 06/04/2023 17:04

This was the bit I quoted:

It’s really interesting to me that your anger seems to be reserved for these nebulous “activist groups” that are somehow controlling everything, yet you’ve ignored the misogyny and classism in the police who were dealing with the victims

which I suggested deserves the oft-used mumsnetism.

EndlessTea · 06/04/2023 17:00

Are you not allowed to call someone a GF on FWR? Is that them rules?

EndlessTea · 06/04/2023 16:29

If someone starts being a goady fucker on a FWR S&GD thread - does it get moved to AIBU?

EndlessTea · 06/04/2023 16:27

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

BewareTheLibrarians · 06/04/2023 16:22

It’s really interesting to me that your anger seems to be reserved for these nebulous “activist groups” that are somehow controlling everything, yet you’ve ignored the misogyny and classism in the police who were dealing with the victims (see the screenshot). I’d say one of those is more likely than the other, but your mileage may vary.

Unfortunately for me I’ll never know the answer as I have to go to work 😁 I won’t be back to the thread as I’d rather have a sensible discussion about prevention and victim support and what needs to change in the legal system and that’s not happening here.

Suella Braverman thread 2
EndlessTea · 06/04/2023 16:17

I don’t know if it is fear or favour that drives them. Or both.

EndlessTea · 06/04/2023 16:16

I have no idea why they act like attack dogs for transactivists.

EndlessTea · 06/04/2023 16:15

I have no fucking idea why the police would be supportive of a non-Muslim mother going to a mosque to grovel to a load of Imams because her son scuffed a copy of the qu’ran.

EndlessTea · 06/04/2023 16:13

BewareTheLibrarians · 06/04/2023 16:09

So these “activist groups” are completely unstoppable by our current right-leaning government, and the police have no choice but to listen to these groups, under the threat of… what exactly?

Finally our government is saying that they want to stop the interference of these activists.

under the threat of… what exactly?

I have no idea. It is mysterious how perniciously these ideologies have taken hold of the public sector, to the detriment of society.

BewareTheLibrarians · 06/04/2023 16:09

EndlessTea · 06/04/2023 16:05

Do you think that Mermaids are the only activist group which have been offering D&I training to our public servants?

So these “activist groups” are completely unstoppable by our current right-leaning government, and the police have no choice but to listen to these groups, under the threat of… what exactly?