Can MNHQ set up a new discussion category called Feminism: sex & gender discussion (inclusive, non-GC)

Lol! What’s your issue with data being collected about trans women? Why do you object to data being collected about that cohort? Lesbians are females. Why would their sexuality have a bearing on their rates of offending? Trans women are men, that’s the relevant issue in respect of their offending. The vast majority of crime is committed by men, are you not aware of that?

Ahhh, maybe look up the definition of paucity?! 😂

‘I can tell you right now, no reputable statistician would concur with the statements alluding to transwomen criminality made on this thread.’ How can you know that when you claim you haven’t seen and are not aware of the data or the analysis?
‘They would recognise the paucity of data.’ What data? Sure you don’t know what I’m referring to? All very odd.
What about the second stat?

I am beginning to wonder whether this thread isn't a late April Fool's prank.

Lots of suggestions eg what about using chat - no response

Instead selective responses (reiterations) of a position that there is only one true feminism and we are all sinners for not seeing the light.

And as a huge ego-fest it has also succeeded because some actual attempted to engage by using the @ response.

Its always the same. Everyone else is wrong. You dont agree with me. Therefore you are rightwing / homphobic / loud mouth / endless list. But never an attempt to contribute by starting a thread on an issue.

Just relentless antagonism.

Have we all been had?

And when you bring that expert out, we can set them the very similar task of examining lesbian criminality. Or any minority or your choosing, feel free to make a list for them.

Lots of lesbians of FWR, presumably happy to be examined as a demographic in the same fashion as transwomen.

Just a wild guess

You appear to be making an assertion.

The onus is on you to prove it.

I can tell you right now, no reputable statistician would concur with the statements alluding to transwomen criminality made on this thread.

They would recognise the paucity of data.

If you can find one that does, bring them out and let's see what they have to say.

I dunno, it was your knee jerk aggressive response referencing lesbian offending rates (in relation to who knows what) that gave me the impression that you aren’t a fan of women, you know, the real kind.

Are you saying that the rate of convicted sex offenders who are trans women is or isn’t higher than the general male population? You are the statistics expert, expert away on that please.
Whilst you are at it could you please confirm the statistic that never in the entire history of the earth has an adult human male become an adult human female? Thanks

Well of course, another fallacious argument, no surprises on this board.

Why do you think my refusal to accept prejudice and bigotry again transwomen means that I am not' telling men to stop threatening women with rape and violence because we say no?'

Why don't you tell men to stop threatening women with rape and violence because we say no?

All the wannabee stasticians - why you don't you run the numbers on lesbian criminality so that you can position them in the line of sights next?

(Or, better still, why don't you spend the years training up properly so you are in a position to make informed commentary and analysis on the figures that exist, rather than highlighting your ignorance by making erroneous assertions and fallacious conclusions?)

But the stats do show tw offend at male rates or higher actually. So yhr research exists. Already proven over and over again

Plus dysphoria isn't required to be trans sats stonewall and uts transphobic to say so. Eddiis Suzy some days. So I'm trans or nb we all are! I like genderfuck

Just popping in to irrelevantly thank @PlanetLuna for this thread title. I keep seeing in Active, and it's made me laugh more than anything else today!

Yeah, let's have an extra feminist discussion board about sex & gender where sex is assumed to be unimportant to feminism, gender means a vague subjective feeling, and discussions are limited to agreement.

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

No this is not a "point of view" this is facts. The earth is round. The sea is salty. Rain feels wet. Women are adult human females.

If you forego reality why bother even having a discussion? Women are purple balloons filled with glitter your argument that they human with bones and muscles and blood is just your POV!! Do you see my point?

Once you forego reality all reason is lost.

And how? How do you separate trans and non trans if you consider men women?

In Belgium they celebrated for the first time in history to have equal numbers of men and women in the federal government with 9 women and 11 men because one bloke wears frocks now.

I've seen discussions on UK media about the worrying trend that the number of "women" sexual predators are suddenly doubling. But men's crimes are written down as women crimes now if they claim to be a woman.

Its utterly ridiculous and insane

@wontbesilencedbyyou the whole everyone thinks that they're right point has some validity but let me leave this with you, some people think that being a girl or woman is a test you can pass or fail. They may not all agree on the criteria and be hesitant to be pinned down on any specific metric but I disagree.

There are three concepts contained in the word woman (and three only) and they are all important

1. adult, the distinction between adults and children is important in law and safeguarding policies and should be protected and upheld
2. human, the internet is rife with dehumanising language directed at women, it is a reasonable act of self defence to resist pressure to switch to female/ birthing person / chestfeeder / uterus haver etc.
3. female

It is not a spectrum where you lose points and gain points for dress or behaviour - it is not helpful or meaningful to argue that a is more of a woman than b

someone who is a woman cannot fail the 'being a woman test' because it isn't a test. Someone who is a man cannot pass the 'being a woman test' no matter how sincere or hardworking, because it isn't a test. I rather like gnc people but you have to respect other people's boundaries and feelings too.

A man can feel like a genteel lady, or a foxy vixen, or say that he is demure and gentle. I'm not about to intrude or argue, if he says he's a lesbian I'll disagree because his feelings aren't the only feelings that matter.

You are the person saying ‘bad trans women’. I don’t think all trans women are bad, I just know they aren’t women. The very fact they are trans women means they have to be men. But again it’s you bringing good/bad in to the discussion. It is you who keeps trying to put subjective analysis on to objective facts. I am trying to deal in objective facts.

‘Surely everyone thinks that their POV is the round earth, and everyone else is the flat earth.’ Sorry do you not believe in facts? Observable, material reality is not an opinion.
‘Also surely you could still separate the data by who is trans and who isn't, to still see trends which are effected by biological sex. This would be better for everyone.’ How do you define who is trans? Is it only people who have fully transitioned and have obtained a GRC? Or is it anyone who declares they are trans? You see the starting point has to always be clear definitions, otherwise any data is useless.
‘Finally, I think definitions are complicated. It's the 'is a hot dog a sandwich' debate which I think best demonstrates this (I know...insert joke here 😂)’ I have to ask you again, what do you think is complicated about the definition of a woman being adult human female?

@Apollo441 "Now please explain, very slowly" Patronising AF but I'll take the bait then step away because I'm tired and I feel like my original point is more related to this thread than all my later posts.
Because even 0.1% of 99% is still a very small number compared to the amount of normal men walking about actually hurting women physically. By only focussing on the bad trans women, you're letting all the other (numerically many many many more) bad men get away with it.

It's one of my bad qualities that I am right so often 😜😂 Sweet dreams!

@OneMorePlant you are right - I am tired and should go to bed

@OneMorePlant @Eyerollcentral Surely everyone thinks that their POV is the round earth, and everyone else is the flat earth. I just don't think that's a good basis for a discussion: it's true because it's true. Seems very tautological.
Also surely you could still separate the data by who is trans and who isn't, to still see trends which are effected by biological sex. This would be better for everyone.
Finally, I think definitions are complicated. It's the 'is a hot dog a sandwich' debate which I think best demonstrates this (I know...insert joke here 😂)

You do know that 99% of sexual crimes are committed by men and this figure does not get any lower when they identify as women?
That figure is all the justification needed to keep males out of spaces where women are vulnerable. Now please explain, very slowly, why you want to give a free pass to men who identify as women? It makes zero sense. Either men are a danger or they are not, in which case campaign for mixed sex spaces and have done.

@wontbesilencedbyyou

for me the definition of woman is pretty important, but I get that you may feel the same. As I see it the case comes down to this

On the one hand transwoman MP sums it up in parliament as "Being a woman has nothing to do with being female" and whilst I do not agree I know at least roughly what he meant. I do not deny that such a concept or feeling exists but I do believe that taking the word for "adult human females" to describe this concept is disrespectful of all women.

IF I agreed that the other system of classifying humans was superior I would switch to using it I rather like learning about new classification systems. The claims are generally some combination that it is kinder and/or more inclusive - I do not feel either of these claims stands up to scrutiny.

@wontbesilencedbyyou This is not about no debate. It's like saying it's not debatable that the world is round. It's a fact that we all know to be true. We can prove it's true. It's a waste of time and energy to debate what a woman is. Everyone knows this.

To include men in the definition of women invalidates almost every women's issue because data can no longer be gathered.

If cars can identify as bicycles and you consider them bicycles you can no longer gather correct data about the average speed of bicycles.