Page 29 | Can MNHQ set up a new discussion category called Feminism: sex & gender discussion (inclusive, non-GC)

Eyerollcentral · 04/04/2023 16:28

PlanetLuna · 04/04/2023 16:04

Inclusive, as in not preoccupied with demonising trans people as part of my feminist worldview. Inclusive as in not threatened by using the term cis to describe people like myself during discourse.

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Genuinely where have you see trans people ‘demonised’? Stating biological facts is not demonising anyone. Why are you afraid of women expressing themselves? It’s a really weird request.

Helleofabore · 04/04/2023 16:28

PlanetLuna · 04/04/2023 15:43

Exactly this @ConstanceOcean.

To have any feminism discussion related to gender that is not GC or that’s trans-inclusive is impossible without a lot of hostility and in some cases bullying.

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Rather hypocritical considering the hostility that you have posted over the past few days...

ArabellaScott · 04/04/2023 16:26

'frothing'

Nice.

RoseslnTheHospital · 04/04/2023 16:26

I appreciate that you don't like questions, PlanetLuna... but I can't quite see why you would start a discussion here if you've already put your request directly to MN via other means and don't want to engage with other posters. What's the point?

Useroneofmany · 04/04/2023 16:25

You can debate here, but don't be surprised if people disagree with you. It's perfectly possible to disagree respectfully OP. The problem tends to be when you can't back up your own arguments with any logic.

Ameanstreakamilewide · 04/04/2023 16:25

PlanetLuna · 04/04/2023 14:59

MN, will you please create a talk group/category of Feminism: sex & gender discussion (inclusive, non-GC)?

MN appears to currently have only 2 feminism categories:
Feminism: chat
Feminism: sex & gender discussions

But the Feminism: sex & gender category on MN is predominantly GC, with its emphasis on trans exclusion ideology. Feminists who do not subscribe to those beliefs are often unwelcome and treated with derision and hostility in discussions. Certainly not always as some GC posters do enjoy open, intellectual discussions but often enough that engagement can be toxic & intimidating all around.

It is almost impossible for non-GC feminists to find inclusive/non-GC feminist discussions, and we have to wade through unpleasant (for us) GC threads while attempting to do so.

GC feminism dominates on UK parenting sites in particular. However, inclusive/non-GC feminism is extremely popular around the world (especially in places like the US, NZ, and AU) and in the UK among younger feminists and those who do not see trans rights as a threat to women & girls’ safety. Many UK feminists are non-GC but may feel silenced on MN.

The addition of another category will help open up and improve MN discussions while reducing the toxicity and hostility that many feminists on both sides experience in discussions.

So I propose the following feminism discussion categories:
Feminism: chat (general)
Feminism: sex & gender discussions (GC)
Feminism: sex & gender discussion (inclusive, non-GC)

@MNHQ

Why can't you use the other Feminism group?

You can run amok with all sorts nonsense in there.

Bamboux · 04/04/2023 16:24

ConstanceOcean · 04/04/2023 16:22

Welcome the the feminist board where if you dare to have a slightly different opinion to the majority you get belittled and ridiculed into leaving.

You will also notice only a small number of posters will actually want to have a discussion with you.

The rest will call you a troll or a man.
Or have their own discussions about you with other posters.
Or try and say things or do things such as change their username just to get a laugh off other posters and try and make you feel small.

These keyboard warriors will use various tactics to silence you/make you leave the thread.
Whats ironic is that these women are probably as timid as mice in RL.

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Oh hi again @ConstanceOcean ! Please could you post the link to the thread where the woman seeking advice on her trans child got 'ripped to shreds' by all of the posters? I think you must have missed those of us asking.

Incidentally, this:

Whats ironic is that these women are probably as timid as mice in RL.

made me laugh. Not only is it spectacularly far off the mark in relation to me personally (you wouldn't like to argue with me IRL, I promise), but it hardly applies to the GC women that we see out and about, does it?

Would you call Julie Bindel, Germaine Greer, Kellie-Jay Keen, Suzanne Moore, and Maya Forstater 'as timid as mice'? Odd perceptions you have.

JellySaurus · 04/04/2023 16:24

FourTeaFallOut · 04/04/2023 15:10

🙄 You want a board which excludes opinions which you disagree with because you can't find traction on a board that doesn't exclude your opinion?

Indeed.

Happylittlechicken · 04/04/2023 16:24

Oooh we got frothing!!! My bingo card is filling up nicely. Any advance on frothing OP?

Mochudubh · 04/04/2023 16:23

What does trans-inclusive (non-GC if you prefer) mean to you @PlanetLuna? What does it look like in real day to day life?

Perhaps if you could explain we might see where you're coming from.

OzempicClicker · 04/04/2023 16:22

No thanks.

JKTrolling · 04/04/2023 16:22

Nice try OP but this isn’t a place for debate. You wouldn’t join the Take That fan club and start a conversation about how East 17 are better. So don’t come hear wanting to discuss non GC ideas.

ConstanceOcean · 04/04/2023 16:22

KG74 · 04/04/2023 16:05

Wow, it took 28 seconds for somebody to do exactly what I said I feared! well don, you win the GC pile on 1st place.

Welcome the the feminist board where if you dare to have a slightly different opinion to the majority you get belittled and ridiculed into leaving.

You will also notice only a small number of posters will actually want to have a discussion with you.

The rest will call you a troll or a man.
Or have their own discussions about you with other posters.
Or try and say things or do things such as change their username just to get a laugh off other posters and try and make you feel small.

These keyboard warriors will use various tactics to silence you/make you leave the thread.
Whats ironic is that these women are probably as timid as mice in RL.

Bamboux · 04/04/2023 16:21

Noicant · 04/04/2023 16:20

But feminism is about sex and gender. What do you want women to talk about in feminism chat? This is very confusing for me

If you don’t like feminism generally theres a whole bunch of categories under which you can post under.

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@PlanetLuna your OP was neither straightforward, respectful, nor genuine. You are new to the site and you've found you don't like it. When that happens to me I go elsewhere. You are free to do so.

JKTrolling · 04/04/2023 16:21

Nice try OP but this isn’t a place for debate. You wouldn’t join the Take That fan club and start a conversation about how East 17 are better. So don’t come hear wanting to discuss non GC ideas.

Helleofabore · 04/04/2023 16:20

YetAnotherSpartacus · 04/04/2023 15:20

If the atom is split any more it will explode.

😁

Noicant · 04/04/2023 16:20

PlanetLuna · 04/04/2023 15:25

I’m new enough to MN that I am unfamiliar with the history that led to the set up of the feminism boards as they currently are.
I assumed the feminism:chat category was for posts unrelated to sex & gender. Is that assumption not accurate?

But we can all see the calibre and toxicity of the replies to me in just the first few minutes of my post being up. It’s a lot of negativity for a MN poster to be subjected to for a straightforward, respectful post.
And it is proof of the underlying need for the category I’ve requested.

But feminism is about sex and gender. What do you want women to talk about in feminism chat? This is very confusing for me

If you don’t like feminism generally theres a whole bunch of categories under which you can post under.

Original poster

PlanetLuna · 04/04/2023 16:19

AmuseBish · 04/04/2023 16:03

So I think we've established that OP doesn't actually know what 'GC' means or what 'non-GC feminism' is, or that they are so rude that they plop in here with claims about them but can't even be bothered to engage?

Never changes, does it? And then they pretend to wonder why the 10000th thread about 'why GC is wrong although I can't say what it is' gets short shrift.

How many replies have you made to me in the past hour demanding that I engage with you and do so immediately?

And because you’ve carried on in this increasingly frothing manner (while I do other things in my life besides engaging on a MN thread) with likeminded pp’s you feel that “we’ve established that OP doesn’t actually know what GC means”?

I don’t owe you an explanation of my own feminist beliefs or my perception of your feminist beliefs because I’m not interested in engaging with you on that. Not least because I see from responses to this thread the futility of engaging with people who will attack anyone who disagrees with them.

My request was to MN, which I have forwarded by other means, not to GC posters.

OP posts:

mirax · 04/04/2023 16:19

PlanetLuna · 04/04/2023 15:25

I’m new enough to MN that I am unfamiliar with the history that led to the set up of the feminism boards as they currently are.
I assumed the feminism:chat category was for posts unrelated to sex & gender. Is that assumption not accurate?

But we can all see the calibre and toxicity of the replies to me in just the first few minutes of my post being up. It’s a lot of negativity for a MN poster to be subjected to for a straightforward, respectful post.
And it is proof of the underlying need for the category I’ve requested.

You claim to be new here. I am relatively new too but I spent a bit of time getting to know the place and how it functioned. It is easy to pick up that this section is full of brave hardy women who have been kicked out of the main spaces and moderated strictly for views that are still shared by 90% of the global population. You were rude and obviously trying to shitstir OP and got just the mockery and schooling you deserved. Dont try the "you are all so mean to poor old me" gambit now.

Chersfrozenface · 04/04/2023 16:19

AmuseBish · 04/04/2023 16:11

Inclusive as in not threatened by using the term cis to describe people like myself during discourse.

I'm not threatened by you calling yourself cis, if you feel you:
a) have a womanly gender identity,
b) and a female body, and
c) you believe that 'woman matches female'.

That's fine. There you go, I'm inclusive. Now will you engage?

The OP said "Inclusive as in not threatened by using the term cis to describe people like myself during discourse".

It rather depends what is meant by "people like myself".

If it means @AmuseBish's definition, i.e. the OP as an individual, crack on.

If it means "any natal woman who does not identify as trans", no thank you.

I don't feel threatened by that term, I reject it entirely.

Bamboux · 04/04/2023 16:19

AmuseBish · 04/04/2023 16:09

I’ve lost count of how many posters are called trolls or men just because they have a slightly different opinion.

I've been called a troll and a man. Weirdly my fingers didn't drop off and I'm still able to answer a question and state my opinions.
If you're so unsure of your views that they can't withstand someone on the internet being a bit rude then perhaps they're not really worth creating a new board to express?

So was I, on a thread where I wasn't going along with the dominant view re Posie Parker vs the Brighton soc fems. The thread was pretty impossible for me (and annoying), but it didn't make me strop off the board permanently nor did it make me demand that everything else should be changed to suit me.

I found it irritating to be wrongly accused of stuff, but shit like that happens on the internet sometimes. It's nothing compared to e.g. getting banned from Reddit for a week for disagreeing with Drag Queen Story Time.

Seasonofthewitch83 · 04/04/2023 16:18

By creating a separate section, MN would have to acknowledge it has an anti trans board, which would scare away the advertisers.

SpidersAreShitheads · 04/04/2023 16:18

KG74 · 04/04/2023 16:05

Wow, it took 28 seconds for somebody to do exactly what I said I feared! well don, you win the GC pile on 1st place.

The problem is @KG74 you’re posting something that most PP disagree with. It’s not a pile-on because people aren’t attacking you - it’s just disagreement. If you hold views which are in the minority, people will disagree.

If you’re not thick-skinned enough to handle robust disagreement then perhaps a discussion forum isn’t the best place for you? Genuine question. There are other sites/groups which are supportive rather than encouraging conflicting debate - which is what MN is for.

And just for complete clarity, I’m not trying to be an arse or silence you. There are some days that I don’t feel robust enough to post because I don’t feel up to dealing with responses (I am GC but I mean in general). I also have my notifications switched off as I don’t like getting emails saying “UserXxx has mentioned you in a post”. I prefer to dip in as and when I feel able to - that’s especially helpful on threads which are very controversial or hot.

I don’t know if switching off your notifications would make it feel easier for you to post? Although people might not agree with you, no one actually wants another woman to be silenced. A GC echo chamber without any dissent isn’t the goal here - it’s just that the majority of women happen to hold that view.

greenspaces4peace · 04/04/2023 16:17

i'm not a damn cis anything i'm a woman and proud to be.
all this trans bs for what 3% of the population if that.
NO is a complete sentance.

Happylittlechicken · 04/04/2023 16:16

I want a board of my own too. Feminism but nobody who eats chickens can join and we can’t talk about chickens on it. Ta. Serious this is crazy!!!