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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Can MNHQ set up a new discussion category called Feminism: sex & gender discussion (inclusive, non-GC)

867 replies

PlanetLuna · 04/04/2023 14:59

MN, will you please create a talk group/category of Feminism: sex & gender discussion (inclusive, non-GC)?

MN appears to currently have only 2 feminism categories:
Feminism: chat
Feminism: sex & gender discussions

But the Feminism: sex & gender category on MN is predominantly GC, with its emphasis on trans exclusion ideology. Feminists who do not subscribe to those beliefs are often unwelcome and treated with derision and hostility in discussions. Certainly not always as some GC posters do enjoy open, intellectual discussions but often enough that engagement can be toxic & intimidating all around.

It is almost impossible for non-GC feminists to find inclusive/non-GC feminist discussions, and we have to wade through unpleasant (for us) GC threads while attempting to do so.

GC feminism dominates on UK parenting sites in particular. However, inclusive/non-GC feminism is extremely popular around the world (especially in places like the US, NZ, and AU) and in the UK among younger feminists and those who do not see trans rights as a threat to women & girls’ safety. Many UK feminists are non-GC but may feel silenced on MN.

The addition of another category will help open up and improve MN discussions while reducing the toxicity and hostility that many feminists on both sides experience in discussions.

So I propose the following feminism discussion categories:
Feminism: chat (general)
Feminism: sex & gender discussions (GC)
Feminism: sex & gender discussion (inclusive, non-GC)

@MNHQ

OP posts:
Thread gallery
27
Somanyquestionstoaskaboutthis · 04/04/2023 16:36

@PlanetLuna I’m pretty new here too so I’m still trying to learn about all this. In your OP you say you want this new area for “those who don’t see trans rights as a threat to womens and girls’ safety”. Please can you explain this?

Happylittlechicken · 04/04/2023 16:36

I think some posters have spent too much time on Twitter with the “only people xxxxx has mentioned can reply” function and get upset when they post on a discussion board and any Tim dick and Harry can reply. And they have to see opinions they disagree with, or got asked to back up their arguments.

Seasonofthewitch83 · 04/04/2023 16:36

Useroneofmany · 04/04/2023 16:32

Are they pile ons? Or are they just a number of posters stating their opinion?
OP is welcome to his/her/their opinion and as this is a discussion board, it is to be expected that people share their thoughts.
Most posters being of a similar opinion does not make it a pile-on.

I don't think its necessary for 50 people to reply to one comment, no, not if they aren't adding anything useful or constructive to the conversation. It makes threads very tiresome to read and good points get lost in the drivel.

lechiffre55 · 04/04/2023 16:36

it shouldn’t be too hard for you to find one.

The classics are always the best :)
I expect you to google for my point isn't as strong an argument as you think it is.

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 04/04/2023 16:35

ConstanceOcean · 04/04/2023 16:22

Welcome the the feminist board where if you dare to have a slightly different opinion to the majority you get belittled and ridiculed into leaving.

You will also notice only a small number of posters will actually want to have a discussion with you.

The rest will call you a troll or a man.
Or have their own discussions about you with other posters.
Or try and say things or do things such as change their username just to get a laugh off other posters and try and make you feel small.

These keyboard warriors will use various tactics to silence you/make you leave the thread.
Whats ironic is that these women are probably as timid as mice in RL.

Timid as mice you say. All us women who have been marching, speaking, writing, crowd funding and campaigning for years are timid as mice.
Why are you so keen to portray women as weak? What narrative does that suit?

stayathomer · 04/04/2023 16:35

I think the tone of this thread could be the reason the op would like a different place for people to post. Do you all hear yourselves? Would you allow your children to gang up on people the way you do? A lot of people stay away from the feminism part of mn exactly because of the behaviour on this thread, people demanding answers, scoffing, generally being hostile and horrible

ConstanceOcean · 04/04/2023 16:35

ArabellaScott · 04/04/2023 16:30

*you're.

Oh dear!

Correcting someone’s grammar or spelling is beyond embarrassing.

Maybe come off of MN for a few minutes each day and try getting a hobby love.

TiedUpWithABlackVelvetBand · 04/04/2023 16:35

MNHQ isn’t going to set up the third forum you’re looking for OP - mainly because it doesn’t make any sense.

But predominantly, because ‘feminism chat’ is already right there for exactly your purpose.

Why can’t you just post in ‘feminism chat’ @PlanetLuna?

Eyerollcentral · 04/04/2023 16:35

Seasonofthewitch83 · 04/04/2023 16:30

I wish this was true, however it seems to be a mix of genuine GC debate and the effects on women, and calling Drag Queens paedophiles on the regular. I was called a child molester because I questioned the accusations made against Jeffrey Marsh. This board is fucking hostile.

Right but drag queens and Jeffrey marsh aren’t trans. Drag queens are generally gay men who dress up as women for entertainment purposes. Jeffrey Marsh as I understand it is a (deeply creepy) non-binary person. So again I am asking where people have demonised trans individuals? Btw people are allowed to question things. Being non-binary or trans isn’t a get out of jail free card. Jeffrey Marsh’a conduct breaches every single safeguarding measure in the book, and he makes a living out of it. He should be questioned.

YetAnotherBeckyMumsnet · 04/04/2023 16:34

Hello @PlanetLuna thanks for posting. The Sex & Gender board in Feminism isn't just for posters with a gender critical perspective and you'll find many posters there (including lots of regular users) who do not. We want people to have civil and constructive discussions - and as we say in our guidelines, we're convinced it's the only way forward.

Mumsnet moderation principles for discussions around gender identity and sex | Mumsnet

Mumsnet makes parents' lives easier by pooling knowledge, advice and support on everything from conception to childbirth, from babies to teenagers.

https://www.mumsnet.com/i/trans-rights-moderation-policy

ArabellaScott · 04/04/2023 16:33

Disagreement does not equal 'pile on'.

I think some posters are struggling to understand what 'discussion' actually means.

Useroneofmany · 04/04/2023 16:32

Seasonofthewitch83 · 04/04/2023 16:28

I think its fine to be able to discuss and debate, but the pile ons are extreme as is the name calling.

Are they pile ons? Or are they just a number of posters stating their opinion?
OP is welcome to his/her/their opinion and as this is a discussion board, it is to be expected that people share their thoughts.
Most posters being of a similar opinion does not make it a pile-on.

Bamboux · 04/04/2023 16:31

ConstanceOcean · 04/04/2023 16:29

made me laugh. Not only is it spectacularly far off the mark in relation to me personally (you wouldn't like to argue with me IRL, I promise), but it hardly applies to the GC women that we see out and about, does it?

@Bamboux

Ooh your hard!

🤣🤣🤣

I’m sorry but that was such a cringey thing to say.

And I’m not sure how to link the thread in question as I don’t know what it was called because I didn’t start it but there have been at least 5 where a poster has been piled upon in similar circumstances when they hadn’t actually supported trans-rights and so it shouldn’t be too hard for you to find one.

My hard what?

Thanks for confirming that you can't provide any evidence at all for this thing which is apparently ubiquitous here.

And for ignoring the rest of my post.

But you posted some 'crying laughing' emojis. Well done you. Impressive stuff.

Happylittlechicken · 04/04/2023 16:31

Or for you to find @Seasonofthewitch83 just a link will do …..

ArabellaScott · 04/04/2023 16:30

ConstanceOcean · 04/04/2023 16:29

made me laugh. Not only is it spectacularly far off the mark in relation to me personally (you wouldn't like to argue with me IRL, I promise), but it hardly applies to the GC women that we see out and about, does it?

@Bamboux

Ooh your hard!

🤣🤣🤣

I’m sorry but that was such a cringey thing to say.

And I’m not sure how to link the thread in question as I don’t know what it was called because I didn’t start it but there have been at least 5 where a poster has been piled upon in similar circumstances when they hadn’t actually supported trans-rights and so it shouldn’t be too hard for you to find one.

*you're.

MyGrandmaLizzie · 04/04/2023 16:30

Non GC Feminist is an oximoron

Seasonofthewitch83 · 04/04/2023 16:30

Eyerollcentral · 04/04/2023 16:28

Genuinely where have you see trans people ‘demonised’? Stating biological facts is not demonising anyone. Why are you afraid of women expressing themselves? It’s a really weird request.

I wish this was true, however it seems to be a mix of genuine GC debate and the effects on women, and calling Drag Queens paedophiles on the regular. I was called a child molester because I questioned the accusations made against Jeffrey Marsh. This board is fucking hostile.

FourTeaFallOut · 04/04/2023 16:29

Seasonofthewitch83 · 04/04/2023 16:28

I think its fine to be able to discuss and debate, but the pile ons are extreme as is the name calling.

Name calling and dehumanising language like hyenas?

ConstanceOcean · 04/04/2023 16:29

made me laugh. Not only is it spectacularly far off the mark in relation to me personally (you wouldn't like to argue with me IRL, I promise), but it hardly applies to the GC women that we see out and about, does it?

@Bamboux

Ooh your hard!

🤣🤣🤣

I’m sorry but that was such a cringey thing to say.

And I’m not sure how to link the thread in question as I don’t know what it was called because I didn’t start it but there have been at least 5 where a poster has been piled upon in similar circumstances when they hadn’t actually supported trans-rights and so it shouldn’t be too hard for you to find one.

JanesLittleGirl · 04/04/2023 16:29

Sorry OP, it's a No from me. I like this forum. I like that the posters are serious and focused on the thread's purpose but can also be silly. I like that every time you post, you're playing to a tough audience. You need facts and coherence to survive and you will get your arse handed back to you if you fuck up.

Queenofscones · 04/04/2023 16:29

This is a discussion board. You can start a thread, as you have here, and the people who populate this board will tell you what we think. Go to the feminism chat board to discuss non GC things.

Allthegoodnamesarechosen · 04/04/2023 16:29

However, inclusive/non-GC feminism is extremely popular around the world (especially in places like the US, NZ, and AU) and in the UK among younger feminists and those who do not see trans rights as a threat to women & girls’ safety.

People like this, you mean?

Can MNHQ set up a new discussion category called Feminism: sex & gender discussion (inclusive, non-GC)
Can MNHQ set up a new discussion category called Feminism: sex & gender discussion (inclusive, non-GC)
ResisterRex · 04/04/2023 16:29

Dunno about another board but this thread should be preserved in Classics.

ArabellaScott · 04/04/2023 16:28

Happylittlechicken · 04/04/2023 16:24

Oooh we got frothing!!! My bingo card is filling up nicely. Any advance on frothing OP?

I think that although it wasn't OPs term, 'hyenas' really has to be included on the Inclusive Bingo Card.

Seasonofthewitch83 · 04/04/2023 16:28

I think its fine to be able to discuss and debate, but the pile ons are extreme as is the name calling.