Can MNHQ set up a new discussion category called Feminism: sex & gender discussion (inclusive, non-GC)

Gender critical means you’re critical of the societal concept and construct of gender and the limitations it places upon society, or in this context, women.

You have fashioned it to mean something ridiculous.

I posted about my ‘trans’ students (most of which are F-M) but one was M-F which I wanted opinions on.
I cannot have these discussions in RL and it would be nice to have a place where I can discuss them without being accused of all sorts.

When discussing a difficult situation that you are personally involved with, you can request it be treated as a ‘support thread’ (as opposed to a political or intellectual discussion). Not everyone will automatically comply but mumsnet will usually moderate accordingly. There is an incredibly thoughtful recent thread around re: a teenage who suddenly and unexpectedly ran away to live with a teen friends family.

There is also a site section called the ‘The Staff Room’, posters there might have some insight too.

Well this has been an enjoyable thread

thanks for starting it OP

I particularly enjoyed “I like January” gate

All of these questions could be/should be discussed. Expect robust challenge though. If you can't defend your position, under polite disagreement, you don't have a position. Learning to argue and articulate a view is essential to a society. It would be a good thing to do under the anonymity of mumsnet. There are some educated and highly intelligent people here, most of whom will offer their time to developing an understanding of other viewpoints. It is something really valuable that mumsnet FWR does. Agreement is not compulsory here.

If you want nodding head threads, go ahead and create them. No one is stopping you.

So the posts were deleted?

The moderators did their jobs?

This is a publicly open forum. What do you think should happen? That all views are pre-moderated before they are put up?

Or you just do the mature thing and report posts that fall outside the guidelines and move on?

I am a GC feminist but not like the majority on here it seems.

Tbh I don’t actually care if a man wants to wear a dress and make up or if a women wants to shave her hair off and wear baggy jeans and boxers.

I do care about separate changing rooms, toilets, sports etc.

I also hate the message that if you like or dislike X, Y, Z that must mean you have gender issues instead of just not being a stereotype.

You actually sound like most people who post on here.

How can someone be a feminist if they don't want to advocate for women and girls?
I can't see it being anything other than bunfight central and a troll/TRA magnet

https://deadwildroses.com/2019/10/07/handy-venn-diagrams-the-radical-feminist-position-on-gender/

For OP and others who don't understand what being critical of the concept of gender actually means.

We're mostly in the green circle on this board. You can see how gender ideology and religious conservatives have just as much in common with each other....

Feminism is the only circle that frees women from the control of males and fees all humans from oppressive gender stereotypes. In a feminist world everyone is free to present themselves however they want and consensually shag whoever. It's not ok with religious conservatives because they need the concept of gender in order to keep women as the property of the male heads of family. Why are believers in gender ideology so opposed to feminist ideals?

I vote to re-establish FWR as it is them clear that is to discuss the rights of biological females.

We do not need a "chat" section though on occassions would like there to be a cake section so that threads dont get derailed by debates about fruitcake, sponges, chocolate fudge.

My money's on hysterical next

It seems that those posters also believe they are feminists while doing so.

Many posters on this board are black or white.
They think you need to think that all trans people should be banned and are dirty perverts or you’re someone who thinks mens rights come before womens and you want children to have hormone blockers.

Most people posting here don't fit into either of these stereotypes.

It wasn't that people disagreed (because that's ok to disagree) it was the accusations, name calling, twisting words. It was nasty and unpleasant. Many of the posts were deleted by MNHQ. I also was not trying to win any sort of argument, more to ask for evidence other than one badly edited Tik Tok video, and the dangers these videos can present.

OP, are all questions asking 'what group of people are you referring to when you say 'woman'?' seen as 'derisory demands' by you? If not, and people want to know what you mean when you use the term, which is the best way of asking?

NB I am not frothing nor demanding anything, I am politely asking with intent to learn.

You realise that if you have a new board set up, then exactly the same people will go on it and argue the same points on there. It's not that this section or even Mumsnet are gender critical, it's that this is a UK-centric site, and the majority of people in the UK are gender critical.

You see it more on here than in real life or somewhere like reddit, because here is a safe anonymous place to share them

Is it because your arguments are so flimsy that you feel you need a separate board? There's nothing stopping you posting on the boards that already exist, and even if you did get your special new board you wouldn't be able to stop people commenting and challenging your viewpoint.

But you've got your space for supporting men's rights.
Go to Feminism Chat.
That's what it's for.

I'm genuinely interested to hear from non-GC feminists (although I have to agree that to my ears that is an oxymoron) because I struggle to understand the values and beliefs that inform a position that is comfortable with males identifying as women and is happy to adopt the term 'cis'.

I am a GC feminist but not like the majority on here it seems.

Tbh I don’t actually care if a man wants to wear a dress and make up or if a women wants to shave her hair off and wear baggy jeans and boxers.

I do care about separate changing rooms, toilets, sports etc.

I also hate the message that if you like or dislike X, Y, Z that must mean you have gender issues instead of just not being a stereotype.

However, I also live in the RL and know that trans issues are a thing and it’s increasing.
And therefore I would like to discuss ways to deal with certain issues without being piled upon.

Many posters on this board are black or white.
They think you need to think that all trans people should be banned and are dirty perverts or you’re someone who thinks mens rights come before womens and you want children to have hormone blockers.

I posted about my ‘trans’ students (most of which are F-M) but one was M-F which I wanted opinions on.
I cannot have these discussions in RL and it would be nice to have a place where I can discuss them without being accused of all sorts.

So @PlanetLuna just to confirm in case I’m not understanding. You want a feminism board that is for people who are against everything feminism stands for and you want to control what is posted there, what is discussed and who can post? Ok then. Errr…. Maybe create your own forum…

Feminism / women's liberation is totally about sex. It is about the fact that the sex class of women are oppressed by men because of their / our sex.

Exactly - a lot of the discussion around the split was to try and determine why all Feminism topics wouldn't be in S&G (and if they'd be moved if someone thought they should be in the other one) because by definition they're about sex, if not gender.

NB I am not frothing nor demanding anything, I am contributing and, where relevant, politely asking.

By all means start a thread on how particular language advantages and supports one group.

What you cannot do is ask that no one points out how the same language may negatively impact another group, or have unintended consequences, and disagree with you.

"I’d like to see discussions about gender that don’t devolve into derisory demands of “what is a woman” ."

And the logic of that statement is that if you cannot answer what a woman is, how the fuck do you protect our rights.

If you cannot understand that basic premise, then I do recommend you avoid Sex and Gender discussions from now on because a feminist knows that if you cannot describe a woman, you most certainly are not working towards protecting any rights for female people.

Next, I asked "Just to clarify, a non-GC feminist is someone that thinks women have a common factor that is not sex, but it's.... what? I would genuinely love to know. I can't even tell if your feminism would include me or not."

I’d like to know the answer to this too!

In exchange, I bring information to share with the thread, the Trans Umbrella (not invented by terves):