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Original poster

Can MNHQ set up a new discussion category called Feminism: sex & gender discussion (inclusive, non-GC)

867 replies

PlanetLuna · 04/04/2023 14:59

MN, will you please create a talk group/category of Feminism: sex & gender discussion (inclusive, non-GC)?

MN appears to currently have only 2 feminism categories:
Feminism: chat
Feminism: sex & gender discussions

But the Feminism: sex & gender category on MN is predominantly GC, with its emphasis on trans exclusion ideology. Feminists who do not subscribe to those beliefs are often unwelcome and treated with derision and hostility in discussions. Certainly not always as some GC posters do enjoy open, intellectual discussions but often enough that engagement can be toxic & intimidating all around.

It is almost impossible for non-GC feminists to find inclusive/non-GC feminist discussions, and we have to wade through unpleasant (for us) GC threads while attempting to do so.

GC feminism dominates on UK parenting sites in particular. However, inclusive/non-GC feminism is extremely popular around the world (especially in places like the US, NZ, and AU) and in the UK among younger feminists and those who do not see trans rights as a threat to women & girls’ safety. Many UK feminists are non-GC but may feel silenced on MN.

The addition of another category will help open up and improve MN discussions while reducing the toxicity and hostility that many feminists on both sides experience in discussions.

So I propose the following feminism discussion categories:
Feminism: chat (general)
Feminism: sex & gender discussions (GC)
Feminism: sex & gender discussion (inclusive, non-GC)

@MNHQ

OP posts:
Thread gallery
27
BernardBlacksMolluscs · 04/04/2023 17:14

EmotionalSupportHyena · 04/04/2023 17:12

Discussions of whether the anti-gender movement aligns in many cases with the white suprematist movement.

I’m a big fan of Suprematism but it doesn’t have anything much to say about Gender?

and it definitely doesn’t work if you only use white paint.

Argh in reply to this

<gives up>

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 04/04/2023 17:14

Mock my shit thumb typing why don’t you?

Helleofabore · 04/04/2023 17:14

PlanetLuna · 04/04/2023 17:03

@Helleofabore
Thanks for stalking me, but you don’t know what you’re talking about.

The post MN deleted wasn’t offensive as pointed out by the person who was the recipient of it.

The other threads I asked to have deleted. One was a positive comment about the King’s recent trip with a snarky comment about QC Camilla & a related photo. The others were positive but I had them all deleted to withdraw from the thread.

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And yet, you have made negative generalisations about this board and used dereogatory language towards people on this board. Maybe they weren't all deleted, but they are there. I am very happy to go and find them and post them all to go with the negative denigrations that you posted in your opening post.

If you cannot see the denigrating words that you use, I guess that would account for the degree of negative pushback that you get and that you claim to not understand.

Seasonofthewitch83 · 04/04/2023 17:13

Helleofabore · 04/04/2023 17:02

So the posts were deleted?

The moderators did their jobs?

This is a publicly open forum. What do you think should happen? That all views are pre-moderated before they are put up?

Or you just do the mature thing and report posts that fall outside the guidelines and move on?

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Obviously not. But MN can only move so fast, there are only so many times you want to read personal attacks before you think 'Why bother.'

This board and AIBU are probably the worst offenders for rule breaking. Again, just explaining why they can be seen as intimidating or offputting.

ConstanceOcean · 04/04/2023 17:13

EmotionalSupportHyena · 04/04/2023 17:05

I posted about my ‘trans’ students (most of which are F-M) but one was M-F which I wanted opinions on.
I cannot have these discussions in RL and it would be nice to have a place where I can discuss them without being accused of all sorts.

When discussing a difficult situation that you are personally involved with, you can request it be treated as a ‘support thread’ (as opposed to a political or intellectual discussion). Not everyone will automatically comply but mumsnet will usually moderate accordingly. There is an incredibly thoughtful recent thread around re: a teenage who suddenly and unexpectedly ran away to live with a teen friends family.

There is also a site section called the ‘The Staff Room’, posters there might have some insight too.

I appreciate that thank you.

Most of the threads that have had the most pile ons do involve children (or maybe I just read these the most) and some posters get very triggered and think that going along with someone wearing mascara or trousers is going to lead onto hormone blockers.

ArabellaScott · 04/04/2023 17:13

I thought you'd never ask, Blue.

I have recently found an old Cranks one for Orange Drizzle. Bold, I know.

EmotionalSupportHyena · 04/04/2023 17:12

Discussions of whether the anti-gender movement aligns in many cases with the white suprematist movement.

I’m a big fan of Suprematism but it doesn’t have anything much to say about Gender?

and it definitely doesn’t work if you only use white paint.

Can MNHQ set up a new discussion category called Feminism: sex & gender discussion (inclusive, non-GC)
BlüeöysterCunt · 04/04/2023 17:12

ArabellaScott · 04/04/2023 17:11

Look, can we knock any suggestions of a separate cake/pastry board on the head right now, please? It's making me feel quite apprehensive and frankly anxious.

I was just about to ask if anyone had a nice lemon drizzle recipe 😦

ArabellaScott · 04/04/2023 17:12

I like BOTH your usernames. And top pun, too.

Eyerollcentral · 04/04/2023 17:11

raspberrywine · 04/04/2023 17:08

Discussions of whether the anti-gender movement aligns in many cases with the white suprematist movement.

Back to this again.

It's always interesting how Black and brown women's voices are ignored.

Yes almost like it’s a men’s right’s movement based on paternalistic ideas of who should be allowed to speak 🧐

BlüeöysterCunt · 04/04/2023 17:11

EmotionalSupportHyena · 04/04/2023 17:07

I like your username 💙

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Aww shucks... (Pun totally unintended but still very chuffed)

ArabellaScott · 04/04/2023 17:11

Look, can we knock any suggestions of a separate cake/pastry board on the head right now, please? It's making me feel quite apprehensive and frankly anxious.

Happylittlechicken · 04/04/2023 17:10

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 04/04/2023 17:08

I REALY think the OP should start an AIBU to think that GC feminism aligns with white supremacy thread

that would be ACE

she could lay out all her arguments clearly and define her terms

<happy sigh>

That would be good. I’d put that thread on. My watchlist for sure 😀

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 04/04/2023 17:10

I think noticing that AGP is a thing means you think all people who enjoy role playing as members of the opposite sex are dirty perverts

or something

Eyerollcentral · 04/04/2023 17:09

ValancyRedfern · 04/04/2023 17:07

You could start a thread on any and all of these topics. No-one is stopping you. But you also can't stop people from disagreeing with you in threads you have started. An 'inclusive' feminist board which bans all GC posters from posting doesn't sound very inclusive...

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Think the people she wants to include fit within the category ‘men’ and of that category only those that think you can be a woman even if you have a cock and balls, admittedly a small number of people in the real world.

Florissante · 04/04/2023 17:08

FourTeaFallOut · 04/04/2023 16:29

Name calling and dehumanising language like hyenas?

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That falls into the "It's ok when we do it because we're on the right side of history and are all inclusive 'n' stuff unlike you right-wing, Nazi-siding gender-critical frothing hyenas".

raspberrywine · 04/04/2023 17:08

Discussions of whether the anti-gender movement aligns in many cases with the white suprematist movement.

Back to this again.

It's always interesting how Black and brown women's voices are ignored.

Helleofabore · 04/04/2023 17:08

ConstanceOcean · 04/04/2023 16:57

I'm genuinely interested to hear from non-GC feminists (although I have to agree that to my ears that is an oxymoron) because I struggle to understand the values and beliefs that inform a position that is comfortable with males identifying as women and is happy to adopt the term 'cis'.

I am a GC feminist but not like the majority on here it seems.

Tbh I don’t actually care if a man wants to wear a dress and make up or if a women wants to shave her hair off and wear baggy jeans and boxers.

I do care about separate changing rooms, toilets, sports etc.

I also hate the message that if you like or dislike X, Y, Z that must mean you have gender issues instead of just not being a stereotype.

However, I also live in the RL and know that trans issues are a thing and it’s increasing.
And therefore I would like to discuss ways to deal with certain issues without being piled upon.

Many posters on this board are black or white.
They think you need to think that all trans people should be banned and are dirty perverts or you’re someone who thinks mens rights come before womens and you want children to have hormone blockers.

I posted about my ‘trans’ students (most of which are F-M) but one was M-F which I wanted opinions on.
I cannot have these discussions in RL and it would be nice to have a place where I can discuss them without being accused of all sorts.

"They think you need to think that all trans people should be banned and are dirty perverts or you’re someone who thinks mens rights come before womens and you want children to have hormone blockers."

Banned from what?

And can you post a link and evidence to where you think that 'many posters' think that all trans people are dirty perverts please. Because that is a very serious accusation and I doubt that it represents anything like 'many' posters thinking this. If any at all.

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 04/04/2023 17:08

I REALY think the OP should start an AIBU to think that GC feminism aligns with white supremacy thread

that would be ACE

she could lay out all her arguments clearly and define her terms

<happy sigh>

EmotionalSupportHyena · 04/04/2023 17:07

BlüeöysterCunt · 04/04/2023 17:00

My money's on hysterical next

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I like your username 💙

ValancyRedfern · 04/04/2023 17:07

PlanetLuna · 04/04/2023 16:48

I’d like to see discussions about gender that don’t devolve into derisory demands of “what is a woman” .

Some possible topics I’m interested in are:

Why gender inclusive language matters
The narrative that lesbians are inherently anti-trans is completely false per Just Like Us survey
feminism & neoliberalism
Discussions of whether the anti-gender movement aligns in many cases with the white suprematist movement.

That kind of thing.

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You could start a thread on any and all of these topics. No-one is stopping you. But you also can't stop people from disagreeing with you in threads you have started. An 'inclusive' feminist board which bans all GC posters from posting doesn't sound very inclusive...

diflasu · 04/04/2023 17:06

@PlanetLuna there was a lot of opposition to the original split that was made - and there is nothing stopping you starting threads in feminist chat or gender and sex.

This board does have a long history of being/feeling under attack - and many posters are weary and wary in response - but actual threads with a topic posters will debate and discuss on.

I've notice your name in The Royal family section - so wonder if you are not British - here in UK feminism is currently very preoccupied with erosion of women's rights because it has to be so that is reflected in current threads - but you can and should start ones on things you wish to discuss.

AutisticLegoLover · 04/04/2023 17:06

No thank you. Feminism doesn't centre men, nor does it include them. Can we have nothing that's just for us?

midgemadgemodge · 04/04/2023 17:06

Aligns with the white supremacist movement ?!

You can post what you like on the feminism board but no matter where you put it you get at best laughed at if you try to make the case that women interested in say safeguarding are like white supremacists

Women don't believe they are better than men or transwomen

We just know we are different in material ways around physical reproductive biology

Ameanstreakamilewide · 04/04/2023 17:05

MrsTerryPratchett · 04/04/2023 15:21

we were cast out of FWR and shunted off into the dreary corner

I bought pot plants and made nice curtains you ungrateful baggage.

'Baggage' isn't used nearly enough in that context! 😂