Can MNHQ set up a new discussion category called Feminism: sex & gender discussion (inclusive, non-GC)

@Helleofabore , yep stirring the pot!

forwarded by other means

😂

MNHQ replied but whatever

Is this thread on twitter yet? I mean I’m assuming it is for screen shots

This has been mentioned repeatedly on this thread.

Either the OP lacks the ability to look for the 'contact us' button, or has posted this with other motivations. I think once you see the language used, it becomes clear.

No worries.

We were never told that this place was a 'safe space' for any type of poster. Quite the opposite in fact.

It has had many robust discussions in the past. It has had trans people post and not surprisingly it has had its fair share of female trans people who may or may not call themselves feminists come and have discussions with us that are very interesting. Because, they assured us, there are more than we think of them out there who are reading.

"My request was to MN, which I have forwarded by other means, not to GC posters."

then why on earth did you post it on here? the only reason would be to get the reactions you got. The correct place to post it would be in Site Stuff - that is where requests get made for new boards.

If you don't know that then you have not done some very simple research and IMO you are not a regular poster who is posting in good faith.

That is the classic behaviour of a Troll. You did not post to engage but to provoke. Definition attached as it seems you are not very familiar with how online forums work.

Feminism includes considering women who aren't feminists.

On this forum I’m not asked to tip toe around people who think a man puts on a frock, says magic words and ta dam ! wine turns into blood. Also I’m allowed to use facts that feel like a big stick to people’s feelings, as long as I don’t personally attack them (fine by me, I’d always rather play the ball than the woman). But on this issue I’m expected to creep around the vestry like a secretly atheist chorister, forced to chose between total silence or mouthing the words to a hymn I think is full of bollocks.

😆

🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆

You made my new favourite post on the thread @AlienatedChildGrown !

🤣🤣🤣

What were the chances???

I haven't read the, I'm assuming, zillions of says pointing out the wankery of this OP.

Personally I couldn't give much of a fuck. It doesn't matter how many times you kick us off any board, this subject is still generating a torrential interest.

But what really warms the cockles of my heart, is the utter desperation required to demand women re-categorise themselves for the third time.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah!!!!!

Yes, let’s call it the “feminism for men’s rights and fictional bullshit board
”.

To be properly 'inclusive' Mumsnet would need at least one feminism talk group for each of the 100 genders.

I'm disappointed that the OP is so transphobic that they are excluding so many of the most vulnerable people in our society.

Vast groups of these feminists must be feeling horribly excluded by transphobes like @PlanetLuna. Once they have an inclusive group of their own I'm sure that each of these 100 genders will have some truly remarkable insights into the best way to tackle gender inequality.

How about people who believe in reality are allowed to believe in reality on any part of the site, rather than shuffled off to one bit in the feminism section, despite not being a feminist.

I’m not gender critical. I just paid attention during my biology O level. And have eyes, ears, nose. Am a product of ancestors who survived in part cos they could tell the difference between the sexes from enough distance to find a place to hide.

On this forum I’m not asked to tip toe around people who think a man puts on a frock, says magic words and ta dam ! wine turns into blood. Also I’m allowed to use facts that feel like a big stick to people’s feelings, as long as I don’t personally attack them (fine by me, I’d always rather play the ball than the woman). But on this issue I’m expected to creep around the vestry like a secretly atheist chorister, forced to chose between total silence or mouthing the words to a hymn I think is full of bollocks.

I think the tide has turned enough that ye olde hastily cobbled together in crisis rules, for managing what has turned into the mother of hot potatoes, could be revoked. And we can go back to the 99%+ of people on the planet who believe in reality being ungagged at this point.

I look forward to the next new naughty step. Where I expected to herded into the Goldfish board for the crime of not agreeing gravity isn’t real and feeling floaty is valid & brave.

Thank you for clarifying.

😂

Look you can't expect the menz to actually read and digest what the silly Mummies have actually written, can you?

No, no, it's far easier to just smear the entire board comprised of lawyers, doctors, midwives, SAHMs, and the multitude of other highly articulate, clever and reasonable women as 'anti-trans' rather than engaging with the evidenced argument.

Of course, what you don't get on here is people just agreeing with you. I'm betting most people have had their arses handed to them at one point or another.

If someone beating you in an argument is something that makes you feel 'unsafe' real life is going to be hard.

@Helleofabore Hey ilovemyspace

You know, if you go off and do the research for yourself and it makes you really consider what is going on. That is really all that any poster on these threads can ask for.

Your work is done! 😂😂

But, seriously, Thank you! x

Mad innit?

Loads of us have teenage children who identify as trans whom we dearly love, we just think getting one’s tits amputated before the frontal cortex is properly developed (and thus the ability for long term thinking is formed) isn’t a great idea.

anyone engaging on those topics would do so with the understanding that some feminists simply do not agree with GC feminism and do not want those conversations derailed

This remark makes no sense at all. You cant ask for a discussion about feminism and then say only people who agree with your definition of feminism can take part.

Although ironically you could turn it on its head and say as this board is currently ghettoised by mumsnet (not by the users who didn't want it) to "sex and gender" that those who want to discuss this dont want it derailed by anyone who doesn't think this is a fundamential issue for feminists.

Is part of the problem that the one thing we all agree on that the creation of "chat" feminism is such an insult that nobody wants to be on it..

Otherwise why aren't all those who either think the gender and sex aren't part of feminism, or that everyone on this board are unpleasant, using chat.

It makes no sense at all.

Why wouldn't you just start using chat and stop worrying about who says what here.

If you think it being called "chat" is a slur then ask MNHQ to label it something more meaningful and just start contributing.

But as I said up thread, I do think one of the consequence of the undemocratic split of the FWR board is that some women now feel they have to conform to this false segregation.

Effectively by hiving off "sex and gender" MNHQ (not the contributors) have created a less well rounded board. If I was of a suspicious nature and believed in conspiracies, I would suggest that was the underlying reason for doing that. That they hoped it would prove that gender critical (ie the underlying basis of feminism) would wither away and cease to exist.

So all this shows is that the only people who think feminism should be parcelled out are MNHQ, and those who think that anyone who talks about feminism should have their shared analysis of feminism.

@Regularsizedrudy

I think you'll find that if you go onto that board, there are some male to female trans people who are admired and praised for their honestly on the limitations of sex change, so it isn't simple as you say.

I don't think anyone hates trans people, though I agree that sometimes the language is too robust for my taste. What most people on that board really, really don't like is the "trans women are women, no debate" tone of campaigning that has been used to silence women though, or the death threats that people like JK Rowling have to put up with for putting their head above the parapet. Most people on the board would happily match for third spaces. If you want to call that hatred, I'd call that a bit of a misrepresentation but 🤷‍♀️

Ha ha ha ha. You've got the whole of the rest of MN to post on,but that's still not enough? Sounds somehow familiar......

Gender is made up bollocks, forcing people into prefabricated ideas of how women and men should behave , the word should always be sex .
Gender was only used in the past because some people didn't like the word sex and its implications, however we all knew that gender meant the same thing , now it doesn't, like so many words it's been repurposed.

This whole discussion about what is a woman is stupid imo. We can be anything we want to be. Our gender or sex does not define us, we define ourselves.

But coming back to your point OP, GC females have a long way to go to join female sisterhood, that is for sure. Who knew the male brain they were born with would/could still control their thoughts and feelings even with gender reassignment. I think a forum that you feel safe talking to others like you is really important.

I feel sorry they werent born into the body they identify to, its a real shame, but don't make those of us who were born into tge right body your chess pieces, we're not. But if you become more inclusive and open minded, you may yet be welcomed into our sisterhood and that mean's stop labelling me.

No one 'hates' anyone.

Women object to their rights being harmed and to having no accessible single sex spaces. Male people identifying as women does not always work for women.

Calling that 'hate' and trying to stop women talking about it does nothing to solve this problem.

@Helleofabore I do not consider Maya a feminist.

I don't think people on this board think 'all trans people have some evil agenda'.

They do tend to think you can't tell nice transwomen from men claiming to be trans to access women's spaces (which is why safeguarding then leads to keeping all male bodied people out)

People also distinguish between TRAs who do seem to want to remove any sex based provision in favor of gender based provision, and trans people who want to go about their business quietly (and who would probably be quite happy for 3rd spaces, but the TRAs don't want those).