Starmer: Almost no-one is talking about trans issues

no? so we just have a GC Terf lecturing others on the idea that book clubs should include males even if they purport to be for women and because you belive that, you're morally superior to others?

Or a lesbian booking a venue for women only lesbian speed dating?

In those cases there’s (arguably) no threat to women’s safety/dignity but they’d like to not have any men, the biological kind or the kind holding a GRC.

So you really think that a male attending a lesbian dating session isn't a problem and doesn't pose a threat? Really?

And please don't hide behind 'I've explained it on other threads' because you really haven't.

It really would help the conversation if you could list 'women's' spaces which you feel should be mixed sex by allowing TW in and explain why you think TW but not other males should be let in.

Those trying to defend the indefensible are all over the shop as there are no ethical coherent arguments for why women's rights to privacy, safety from males should be breached. No acceptable arguments why children should be subject to trans ideology in schools. No coherent explanation as to why labour are incapable of stopping transactivists bullying women out of the party. Hence Starmer's "nobody's talking about this" claim rather than finding the courage to address the mess labour are in.

They’re wasting time with this stuff

AdamRyan

*100% trans exclusionary - someone who feels no people in opposite sex spaces under any circumstances.
E.g.
No women in men's golf clubs.
No men in womens book groups.
No women in men's networking events

Everything operating as for the benefit of one sex is completely and totally barred to the opposite sex.

In which case trans men are women and trans women are men, just differently presenting.*

This is very clear, thank you, and it would be my position, yes. What are you going to do about it?

Well yes I've never said any different

Yes, all over the shop. Plus, if you want to sometimes exclude TW, it means you don't think they've literally changed sex, and that you think sex sometimes matters. Which means you're GC.

Do people just create lack of clarity to fill posts?

I can’t believe the crap people spend time dealing with

So you do want to exclude

You’re all over the shop

Unless it means excluding biological men with a GRC ie trans women (= legal woman) from biological women only spaces. Then, yes, I would exclude them from those spaces to uphold the safety, dignity and privacy of the biological sex class woman.

Yeah it must be. But you're arguing for letting TW into some women's spaces whilst refusing to explain which ones, why and why not let other males into that too which is going to aggravate people and confuse.

Men talk over women. If women want a women only book club, there's a reason for it. Who are you to shout that down? what you should be doing, if you feel you can defend it, is saying there should be no women only book clubs. There's no more reason to let a TW into a women only book club than a shy retiring man who feels unable to say his piece when in the presence of alpha males.

I've been labelled a terf loads of times. Don't really care. I am quite confident with my position
Whats only recently started happening is getting called a TRA all the time. That is a bit weird after years of being called a transphobe

So you'd be labelled a terf and TRAs would feel justified in threatening to rape and ķill you. But you defend them? go figure.

I agree with you. I feel the same way.

Go by sex class

Why not?

Twenty years to change attitudes

100% trans exclusionary - someone who feels no people in opposite sex spaces under any circumstances.
E.g.
No women in men's golf clubs.
No men in womens book groups.
No women in men's networking events

Everything operating as for the benefit of one sex is completely and totally barred to the opposite sex.

In which case trans men are women and trans women are men, just differently presenting.

And there is no need to support trans people, because there is no such thing. Just men and women who present differently.

There's no value judgement from me on people who take that view. But this board is very proudly "no men in womens spaces ever". Which to me is incompatible with "supporting transgender people" . Hence why I asked the question.

Exactly. Anyone trumpeting that one is saying males in single sex spaces

The EqA is pretty vague we need @DadJoketo tell us how much it excludes

Yeah apparently the safety, dignity and privacy of women is not a legitimate aim.

The EqA is pretty vague we need @DadJoke to tell us how much it excludes

The answer is not at all

Thank you, yes. I agree with you.
If a space is single sex in accordance with the Equality Act, no males should be in it.

I support single sex spaces where women need them for safety and dignity. I also support trans peoples rights to be treated as their acquired gender where there is no risk to womens safety/dignity of that happening.

I wonder how safe Helen Joyce and Kellie Jay Keen would feel sharing say a toilet space or changing room space with the violent, abusive TW who has just plead guilty to making the most appalling threats against them, what say you @AdamRyan ?

Saying gc women use darvo is disgusting.

It's a meta DARVO.

Please, do not vote him in