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Original poster

Starmer: Almost no-one is talking about trans issues

580 replies

SidewaysOtter · 03/04/2023 12:13

To quote from the rolling news section of this morning's Times:

"Almost no Britons are “talking about trans issues,” Sir Keir Starmer has said as he questioned why such issues are a focus of political debate.

The Labour leader sought to win over gender critical campaigners and MPs at the weekend, telling The Sunday Times there would be “no rolling back” of women’s rights if the party formed a government.

Speaking to LBC this morning he repeated his position that “for the vast majority — let’s say 99.9 per cent — biology matters” in defining a woman. He said that Labour was trying to agree a “common sense, respectable and tolerant position”, but that it was “not prepared to ignore” the small number of people who identify as a different gender to the one they were born in.

He insisted it was a marginal issue for many voters, however. “As we go around the country campaigning, I talk to thousands and thousands and thousands of people. They want to talk to me about the cost of living crisis, about the fact they can’t pay their bills, they want to know what they’re going to do about their council tax,” he said.

“Almost nobody is talking about trans issues. I do sometimes just wonder why on earth we spend so much of our time discussing something which isn’t a feature of the dinner table or the kitchen table or the café table or the bar.”

Funny, because I think there's quite a lot of people talking about "trans issues". Whether it's the treatment of Posie Parker and the 72-year-old woman who were violently assaulted last weekend, male-bodied people in women's sports/changing rooms/hospital wards/prisons, the medicalisation/mutilation of young adults, or the vilification of those who speak The Terrible Heresy that you cannot change your biological sex. And yes, we're talking about it at the dinner table, the café bar or wherever.

"No rolling back of women's rights" doesn't mean shit if you count men as women, Mr Starmer. And you can wang on about "respect and tolerance" all you like but we know what you really mean by that is wanting us to be quiet and stop being awkward. That isn't going to happen.

OP posts:
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FusionChefGeoff · 03/04/2023 13:04

AND another reason people aren't talking about it is because they're scared to! I worry that My dearest lovliest friend in the whole world may be on the TWAW side of the debate so although we talk for hours I've NEVER broached this subject as I can't bear to fall out with her.

Equally I avoid it at work for fear of being labelled / ostracised / dropped (I'm a consultant so contracts could not be renewed if I get it wrong)

Skyellaskerry · 03/04/2023 13:04

Rainbowshit · 03/04/2023 13:00

Sturgeon and the SNP tried this as well. They found out the hard way that they were the ones in a bubble.

Quite.

GailBlancheViola · 03/04/2023 13:01

I rarely talk about it irl because I've seen what happens to people who do.

Quite. Is Kier incapable of seeing or hearing what happens to the women and some men who do speak out? Not noticed all the Court cases Kier? Not noticed the reams of abuse women who speak out are subjected to Kier? FFS one of your own MPs has been relentlessly abused and bullied for speaking out.

Kier - a man who wears blinkers and ear muffs to make sure he neither sees nor hears anything he doesn't want to.

And he is a potential leader of this Country???

Rainbowshit · 03/04/2023 13:00

Sturgeon and the SNP tried this as well. They found out the hard way that they were the ones in a bubble.

FusionChefGeoff · 03/04/2023 13:00

It's only because people are clueless about what's happening that they don't talk about it. Look at what happened in Scotland as soon as Isla / Adam story broke it was all over the papers once people actually realised this is what's happening now.

Justme56 · 03/04/2023 12:57

I think it goes in peaks and troughs. He has a short memory. Scotland ‘s GRR, Isla Bryson, Nicola Sturgeon’s resignation were all recent topics of conversation. It may not be a major issue for him at the moment but it will come up again.

Manichean · 03/04/2023 12:56

He's right. A few MN people are totally obsessed and will post about it at any opportunity, hoping to make it seem a bigger issue than it actually is.

Original poster
SidewaysOtter · 03/04/2023 12:56

It's not always possible to discuss it openly. In academia, for example, it's likely to land you in some very hot water. But just because it's not possible to discuss it doesn't mean that conversations aren't happening quietly and/or elsewhere.

It also doesn't mean people aren't talking about it generally because they are, and increasingly so not least because it's covered more and more in the media.

Starmer can hope this fly in his political ointment will disappear all he likes, but it isn't going to happen.

MN might not be a representative sample of the UK, but we're not an isolated sect that has no contact with other people!

OP posts:
RhannionKPSS · 03/04/2023 12:54

He is a liar, just like the Greens Sturgeon & the Lib Dems.

BunsBunsBuns · 03/04/2023 12:49

I work in publishing. If you read The Bookseller you'd think trans rights/gender identity was the only hottest topic in town.

Meanwhile no one actually discusses it, because it's not up for discussion. But you learn to interpret the twitchy eyelids.

ExtremelyDetermined · 03/04/2023 12:47

Went out with friends of DH at the weekend, one of them brought it up. Went to a bar the next night, people at the next table were talking about it. Came to work this morning and someone was talking about it.

TheSingingBean · 03/04/2023 12:47

PortiasBiscuit · 03/04/2023 12:21

I think he’s right, it’s only on MN that I’ve come across this issue really.

I'm surprised you say this, where do you live?

We had a big group of friends round the other night - I walked in one room and it was being discussed, went into the other room and someone brought the subject up there too.

With the exception of one woman ('It's complicated, be kind') most people were really fired-up about it, particularly safeguarding and women's sports.

Chattycathydoll · 03/04/2023 12:42

I think it’s interesting that so many are incensed by this- he’s made a lose lose situation for himself by not speaking plainly because I read ‘for the vast majority — let’s say 99.9 per cent — biology matters” in defining a woman’ as meaning that biology mattered to him & he was ‘respectfully’ GC and minimising the debate because he thinks the ideology a waste of time.

Rainbowshit · 03/04/2023 12:41

What Keir really means is "I don't want you to be talking about this so I'm hoping if I try and gaslight you into thinking no one else cares then it might go away"

ReadersD1gest · 03/04/2023 12:41

Mr Beige against the machine
Haha, brilliant 😆

pikantna · 03/04/2023 12:40

This board is hardly representative of the majority. Whilst I think most people pretty much agree with the opinions expressed here wrt trans issues- or if not agree with the prevailing views here, at least fall closer to these views than those expressed by the groups who believe gender identity completely outweighs biological sex- in day to day life, most people really, really do not talk or think about it much.

NotHavingIt · 03/04/2023 12:37

Aaron95 · 03/04/2023 12:35

You are probably right, but nonetheless, I doubt that even 10% of people in the country consider it an important issue.

Show quote history

It need not be top of the list of issues mentioned when people are stopped in the street for vox pop purposes - but that doesn't mean it is not an issue of importance. The debate has fnally broken through and the result of repressing it or in not taking it seriously didn't go too well for the SNP.

cupofteaandnetflix · 03/04/2023 12:35

Women are frightened to bring up the subject in real life!

PoshCoffee · 03/04/2023 12:35

He’s lying and must think we’re stupid. Our local Labour Party is very aware of the issues and refuses to engage with them in a constructive way. Like Starmer their head is in the sand. I have no doubt their bums will get bitten by this subject whilst they’re trying not to breathe in sand.

Aaron95 · 03/04/2023 12:35

sanluca · 03/04/2023 12:30

How many people go up to KS and say self id is in my top 10 of points that need to be implemented asap?

I bet it is a lot less than the number of people asking for self id NOT to be implemented...

Show quote history

You are probably right, but nonetheless, I doubt that even 10% of people in the country consider it an important issue.

Feckedupbundle · 03/04/2023 12:34

I think he's wrong too. A lot of my customers have discussed it with me,without me bringing it up,and they are all Team Terf. Not one of them isn't concerned about the erasure of women's rights and child safe guarding.

Just because Mr Beige against the machine wishes it so,doesn't mean it is so.

NotHavingIt · 03/04/2023 12:34

Head in Sand and denial are not the best tactics.

He knows damn well that this has become a major issue.

Haralambus · 03/04/2023 12:33

I work in the public sector, have a full social life, hobbies and do volunteering and I agree with some here that it rarely comes up in conversation. Everything else Starmer mentions (and more) do, frequently.

BewareTheBeardedDragon · 03/04/2023 12:33

I rarely talk about it irl because I've seen what happens to people who do. Women being scared into shutting up doesn't mean they don't care.
The women who are at the sharp end of the practical consequences - women in prison, women in refuges, women in hospital wards, women in sport - are all either marginalised and hugely vulnerable or scared to speak because they stand to lose everything by doing so.
Labour aren't willing to ignore the small % who feel they aren't the sex they were born, but they are willing to ignore vulnerable women. Shame.

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