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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Is the Trans shooter in Nashville Male or Female?

545 replies

Tradeup · 28/03/2023 04:53

The murderer who came in and killed 3 children and 3 adults is trans and called Audrey, I am confused as to their biological sex.

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27
OnlyTheWeedsGrow · 04/04/2023 12:16

What is insane is Madonna doing a benefit concert to raise money for the “real victim” of the shooting - the trans shooter!!! Not the innocent children and adults whose lives have been so violently ended, but the killer BECAUSE THE KILKER WAS TRANS.

coldmarchmorn · 03/04/2023 16:08

TitterYeeNot · 03/04/2023 11:52

Thank you for highlighting the fact they were targeted for their religion. It was a hate crime but it’s not being called that by the press.

Can you imagine if any other religion was targeted in this way? It would be all about how awful it was that they were targeted for their beliefs.

But Christians are fair game.

  1. You don't know that's why
  2. You don't know the shooter wasn't also Christian......she was.

This wasn't a hate crime against christians, this was a disturbed person going back to their old school to shoot it up. She was the same as them, same religion, same background, same everything.

Your slant is insane.

TitterYeeNot · 03/04/2023 15:57

ItIsFiat · 03/04/2023 11:57

Cowards don't tell Muslims that they have a sky fairy.

Christians are the most persecuted at present, the woke UK media never reports on all the Nigerian Christians slaughterd in the past few years.

Careful now…!

But, yes, exactly.

ItIsFiat · 03/04/2023 11:57

TitterYeeNot · 03/04/2023 11:52

Thank you for highlighting the fact they were targeted for their religion. It was a hate crime but it’s not being called that by the press.

Can you imagine if any other religion was targeted in this way? It would be all about how awful it was that they were targeted for their beliefs.

But Christians are fair game.

Cowards don't tell Muslims that they have a sky fairy.

Christians are the most persecuted at present, the woke UK media never reports on all the Nigerian Christians slaughterd in the past few years.

TitterYeeNot · 03/04/2023 11:52

ItIsFiat · 03/04/2023 10:30

Poor little ones, killed for being Christian.

Thank you for highlighting the fact they were targeted for their religion. It was a hate crime but it’s not being called that by the press.

Can you imagine if any other religion was targeted in this way? It would be all about how awful it was that they were targeted for their beliefs.

But Christians are fair game.

ItIsFiat · 03/04/2023 10:30

Emotionalsupportviper · 03/04/2023 09:41

While this is an important discussion, can we take a moment to remember the names of the victims.

Evelyn Dieckhaus, 9;

William Kinney, 9;

Hallie Scruggs, 9

Mike Hill, 61

Katherine Koonce, 60

Cynthia Peak, 61

Three children with their lives ahead of them. Three adults with families depending on them.

All of them loved, and deserving of so much more.

None of them should have been butchered like this - victims of an increasingly evil, intolerant cult.

Poor little ones, killed for being Christian.

Emotionalsupportviper · 03/04/2023 09:41

While this is an important discussion, can we take a moment to remember the names of the victims.

Evelyn Dieckhaus, 9;

William Kinney, 9;

Hallie Scruggs, 9

Mike Hill, 61

Katherine Koonce, 60

Cynthia Peak, 61

Three children with their lives ahead of them. Three adults with families depending on them.

All of them loved, and deserving of so much more.

None of them should have been butchered like this - victims of an increasingly evil, intolerant cult.

namitynamechange · 31/03/2023 13:03

Regarding the conspiracy theory. Given that school shootings tend to happen with depressing regularity in the US, why on earth would anyone go to the effort of faking one when they could just wait until the next one happened anyway.
It reminds me of this.

That Mitchell and Webb Look - Diana Assassination

That Mitchel and Webb Look- Season 4- Episode 6This isn't taking the piss out of Princess Diana but in fact the idiots who believe in conspiracy theories so ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4meFC1ee7Q

Emotionalsupportviper · 31/03/2023 12:42

PorcelinaV · 31/03/2023 09:20

Gun control wouldn't even work that well in the US as it's likely to be overturned in the courts.

Plus there are so many guns already in the population - many of them unregistered - that getting them off the streets would be an impossibility.

I think the best that they can hope for is preventing more being out out there, and controlling the sale of what are effectively "war" weapons - machine guns etc (archaic term, I daresay, but I'm sure you know what I mean).

DameMaud · 31/03/2023 09:26
Non-political take from psychologist Dr Todd Grande (very popular YouTube psychology channel- he does many brief analyses of current crime cases) As far as I'm aware, he comes from completely outside of the debate so it's interesting to hear his analysis

Transgender Ideology and Christianity in the Nashville School Shooting | Audrey Hale Case Analysis

This video answers the question: Can I analyze case of Audrey Hale?Support Dr. Grande on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/drgrandeSubscribe to the Bella Gran...

https://youtu.be/yISxt8MatU8

Beowulfa · 31/03/2023 09:24

The Metro have been describing the killer as "a transgender man who was born female" and using he/him. They were happy to report on Charles Branson without using his new legal surname though.

PorcelinaV · 31/03/2023 09:20

Gun control wouldn't even work that well in the US as it's likely to be overturned in the courts.

SquidwardBound · 31/03/2023 09:10

Florissante · 30/03/2023 14:22

Apparently, it can.

Indeed. Apparently we should just challenge this on the thread.

Which is to say I think that anyone suggesting some sort of state conspiracy to use the murder of primary school children to achieve a gun control policy aim is being ridiculous and irresponsible. And distasteful.

this bit sums the poster up: “What’s a few lives (and it has to be children, to really sway public opinion) in pursuit of the greater good? Think how many future lives will be saved if guns are outlawed.”

3 children murdered this week and this is what someone thinks is a reasonable thing to say about it

Fukuraptor · 31/03/2023 09:09

Just because your mind, (or someone else's) is imaginative and is able to come up with stories you find satisfying/compelling doesn't mean they are likely or true. In the same way that our brains make pictures out of clouds, they make patterns out of events.

Conspiracies can exist (such as e.g. the police cover up at Hillsborough) however lies of that magnitude are extremely difficult to keep, and everyone who had been there knew the police and media were lying. When you are talking about multiple people knowing about doing something so unethical, you are risking them uncovering it or telling someone else etc.

Then you have to think why would 'they' need to do this? There are lots of shootings anyway. And it would likely be ineffective (none of the previous tragic mass shootings have resulted in gun control).

The thing I find interesting about conspiracy theories is there is an underlying order to the world. It's disturbing because the baddies are in charge, but there is hope that they can be overthrown by the special people who have found out the 'truth'. Whereas the non conspiracist doesn't have to handle the idea of baddies on charge but does have the disturbing belief (I'd say truth, I suppose) that it doesn't matter if those "in charge" are well meaning (though often flawed) they cannot foresee and prevent all horrible events.

Maybe you were just stirring, but if you truly believe that this is possible or likely, I think asking yourself some questions about whether a conspiracy is necessary to explain the events, and if not, then the simplest explanation is probably the most likely. If your brain wasn't the patten machine that came up with this explanation, i.e. if you came across the idea somewhere, then consider the profit motive of who is spreading this stuff - who is getting the clicks/followers/subscribers/views by spreading sensational takes on current events.

Danana · 31/03/2023 01:56

TitterYeeNot · 31/03/2023 00:54

Operation Northwoods, Operation Mongoose, etc. There are quite a few examples.

How many people die from gun violence on the streets of Chicago each weekend?

What’s a few lives (and it has to be children, to really sway public opinion) in pursuit of the greater good? Think how many future lives will be saved if guns are outlawed.

It’s not just the unlikelihood (the examples you mention were both in the early 60s, Operation Mongoose was not in the US and Operation Northwoods didn’t go ahead because JFK rejected the idea) but the lack of rationale for such an operation.

The CIA murdering a few kids would be horrific enough if it was for the ”greater good”, but at this point it’s more than obvious that doing so is not going to result in guns getting outlawed.

TitterYeeNot · 31/03/2023 00:54

Danana · 30/03/2023 13:56

You could see that? the US government deciding to murder some young schoolchildren in Nashville in the unlikely hope that unlike Sandy Hook, Uvalde etc this will result in gun legislation?

Operation Northwoods, Operation Mongoose, etc. There are quite a few examples.

How many people die from gun violence on the streets of Chicago each weekend?

What’s a few lives (and it has to be children, to really sway public opinion) in pursuit of the greater good? Think how many future lives will be saved if guns are outlawed.

Florissante · 30/03/2023 14:22

SquidwardBound · 30/03/2023 10:23

I think it’s @MNHQ haven’t deleted the conspiracy theorist type post.

Speculating that the murder of children and staff at a school was a ‘false flag operation’ cannot possibly be ‘in the spirit’ of anything.

Apparently, it can.

Usian · 30/03/2023 14:22

Yes, it’s Dana Rivers. I’d so much rather think about Dana Carvey, though!

Danana · 30/03/2023 13:56

TitterYeeNot · 30/03/2023 11:43

Hmm. I think in this case the killer was more along the lines of an MK Ultra operative.

I could see a government rationalising that killing a few people now will save millions in the future if it will grease the wheels of support for stricter gun legislation.

The confusing trans aspect was also useful as this area is getting out of hand.

You could see that? the US government deciding to murder some young schoolchildren in Nashville in the unlikely hope that unlike Sandy Hook, Uvalde etc this will result in gun legislation?

Emotionalsupportviper · 30/03/2023 11:43

@RedToothBrush

I wish we had a "like" button. This is an excellent post.

TitterYeeNot · 30/03/2023 11:43

monsteramunch · 30/03/2023 10:06

@TitterYeeNot

You think the children and adults murdered never actually existed and somehow nobody has confirmed they didn't exist, and instead a whole community is lying by sharing their made up memories of the made up victims? Catch yourself on 🙄

Hmm. I think in this case the killer was more along the lines of an MK Ultra operative.

I could see a government rationalising that killing a few people now will save millions in the future if it will grease the wheels of support for stricter gun legislation.

The confusing trans aspect was also useful as this area is getting out of hand.

WeeBitOfWoo · 30/03/2023 11:40

RedToothBrush · 30/03/2023 11:25

The untouchable caste is quite telling. It reveals the political blind spot enormously. The Republicans say it can't be guns, the Democrats say it can't be because of online extremist grooming.

Reality check: these incidents don't happen because of singular reasons. They happen because of multiple failings.

It will be a combination of factors; eg online grooming, lack of appropriate mental health support, availability of guns because ridicilously easy, parents being rigid in their faith and being homophobic, a traumatic incident that acts as a trigger.

If you take one of these factors away, the incident may well not have happened - that places the head burying on both the left and right as very much part of the problem - its not an either / or. Its a failure of society as a whole to spot the crisis in an individual.

Ultimately the individual remains to blame, but safeguarding is about providing that safety net to protect innocent parties. There is a failure of safe guarding thats occurred, almost certainly on multiple fronts.

Would this incident have happened in the UK? Well its much more unlikely, because someone under psychiatric care couldn't easily stockpile seven guns. Even where this goes wrong, there's a different response. There was a recent case where there was a spree killing involving a man who was recently given his gun licence back - and our society is now looking at this decision closely precisely because there is a clear line of responsibility in a failure of safeguarding. This means that there is a mechanism to make changes to stop it happening again. This wouldn't happen in the US.

Equally, if its found to have a connection to online grooming / extremist trans activism, I do think the UK not being so split along political lines (certainly compared to even 12 months ago), we'd be more willing as a society to review and look at safeguarding failures. Certainly its starting to be taken seriously in schools by the government and I think we will start to see change before the next GE and even then I think we've passed the point where parents will allow roll back now. The momentum is there and we aren't confined by this religious stand off.

What really concerns me at this point, is the escalation in the openess in encouraging violence by trans extremists. We have always said on MN that the reaction of the narcassitic elements of the movement to being told no, would be this escalation, because that follows the pattern of male violence. And within that, its the continued lack of silence by people in authority to have a zero tolerance attitude to that. And thats STILL not happening. And thats where both the UK and US are going to remain vulnerable to potential incidents being legitimised.

I still think we are due another significant tragedy before the penny starts to drop about the extremist element which needs reining in and safeguarded against. Its there, as clear as day, if people were paying the attention they should rather than putting on their political blinkers are going 'well its not our fault, its the fault of x'.

And one of the most telling features of the trans activist movement is this constant culture of blame deflection - we've seen it with Mermaids in the UK quite magnificently, but they certainly are not the only ones guilty of that. This incident is being framed in the same way.

ALL movements that want to be respected and taken seriously, need to keep their own houses in order and know when to clear house of their own nutty elements for their own benefit. Transactivism really isn't prepared to do any level of self reflection because its so entrenched in its own sense of victimhood. Thats deeply deeply unhealthy.

For me I think the underlying issue then becomes about comorbid issues - why are autistic people drawn to the ideology, does the ideology work to make them part of society or to alienate them further, if they are alienated further what impact does it have on their mental health which might already be poor, if their mental health is poor are trans ideological beliefs which frame counselling to address unlying issues actively causing increased disengagment with appropriate care, do these transactivism extremists online prey on these vulnerabilities and groom kids and young adults in a way thats dangerous to the rest of society?

Thats certainly not saying that trans people = bad. Thats saying that the culture online surrounding transactivism is utterly toxic and its leaking into real world consequences. That is saying that absoluetely needs to be tackled head on. In many ways for the best interests of those vulnerable people who are trans identifying.

Instead we have this fucking dreadful narrative of the far right / christain right v poor little trans people who are totally victimised and innocent. Its so fucked in the head.

The police have stated that they will be making the manifesto of the shooter public. I fully expect more justifying of the murder of innocent kids as a result.

I grew up understanding its never as simple as 'bad v good' because of what I saw first hand as a 14 year old. People don't do bad things for no reason at all. There is always a massive backstory you have to unpick, piece by piece. But ultimately you don't solve the problem without both sides coming to a conclusion that they need to come together and work together in condeming violent behaviour - and THEN working back from that point on dismantling the multiple driving forces behind it. The ongoing Republican v Democratic clash on this, prevents any level of sanity prevailing. And that means we are doomed to a cycle of repeat and escalation until a tipping point is eventually hit. Fuck knows where that lies, if its not with the murder of six people including three kids.

This is a great post. I agree with absolutely every word.

RedToothBrush · 30/03/2023 11:25

ItIsFiat · 30/03/2023 07:55

It will start with Christians deserving it, then TERFS and so on, it will spread internationally.

I see a teen boy in Canada featured on the Twitter feed of Jordan Peterson was attacked.

The untouchable caste is quite telling. It reveals the political blind spot enormously. The Republicans say it can't be guns, the Democrats say it can't be because of online extremist grooming.

Reality check: these incidents don't happen because of singular reasons. They happen because of multiple failings.

It will be a combination of factors; eg online grooming, lack of appropriate mental health support, availability of guns because ridicilously easy, parents being rigid in their faith and being homophobic, a traumatic incident that acts as a trigger.

If you take one of these factors away, the incident may well not have happened - that places the head burying on both the left and right as very much part of the problem - its not an either / or. Its a failure of society as a whole to spot the crisis in an individual.

Ultimately the individual remains to blame, but safeguarding is about providing that safety net to protect innocent parties. There is a failure of safe guarding thats occurred, almost certainly on multiple fronts.

Would this incident have happened in the UK? Well its much more unlikely, because someone under psychiatric care couldn't easily stockpile seven guns. Even where this goes wrong, there's a different response. There was a recent case where there was a spree killing involving a man who was recently given his gun licence back - and our society is now looking at this decision closely precisely because there is a clear line of responsibility in a failure of safeguarding. This means that there is a mechanism to make changes to stop it happening again. This wouldn't happen in the US.

Equally, if its found to have a connection to online grooming / extremist trans activism, I do think the UK not being so split along political lines (certainly compared to even 12 months ago), we'd be more willing as a society to review and look at safeguarding failures. Certainly its starting to be taken seriously in schools by the government and I think we will start to see change before the next GE and even then I think we've passed the point where parents will allow roll back now. The momentum is there and we aren't confined by this religious stand off.

What really concerns me at this point, is the escalation in the openess in encouraging violence by trans extremists. We have always said on MN that the reaction of the narcassitic elements of the movement to being told no, would be this escalation, because that follows the pattern of male violence. And within that, its the continued lack of silence by people in authority to have a zero tolerance attitude to that. And thats STILL not happening. And thats where both the UK and US are going to remain vulnerable to potential incidents being legitimised.

I still think we are due another significant tragedy before the penny starts to drop about the extremist element which needs reining in and safeguarded against. Its there, as clear as day, if people were paying the attention they should rather than putting on their political blinkers are going 'well its not our fault, its the fault of x'.

And one of the most telling features of the trans activist movement is this constant culture of blame deflection - we've seen it with Mermaids in the UK quite magnificently, but they certainly are not the only ones guilty of that. This incident is being framed in the same way.

ALL movements that want to be respected and taken seriously, need to keep their own houses in order and know when to clear house of their own nutty elements for their own benefit. Transactivism really isn't prepared to do any level of self reflection because its so entrenched in its own sense of victimhood. Thats deeply deeply unhealthy.

For me I think the underlying issue then becomes about comorbid issues - why are autistic people drawn to the ideology, does the ideology work to make them part of society or to alienate them further, if they are alienated further what impact does it have on their mental health which might already be poor, if their mental health is poor are trans ideological beliefs which frame counselling to address unlying issues actively causing increased disengagment with appropriate care, do these transactivism extremists online prey on these vulnerabilities and groom kids and young adults in a way thats dangerous to the rest of society?

Thats certainly not saying that trans people = bad. Thats saying that the culture online surrounding transactivism is utterly toxic and its leaking into real world consequences. That is saying that absoluetely needs to be tackled head on. In many ways for the best interests of those vulnerable people who are trans identifying.

Instead we have this fucking dreadful narrative of the far right / christain right v poor little trans people who are totally victimised and innocent. Its so fucked in the head.

The police have stated that they will be making the manifesto of the shooter public. I fully expect more justifying of the murder of innocent kids as a result.

I grew up understanding its never as simple as 'bad v good' because of what I saw first hand as a 14 year old. People don't do bad things for no reason at all. There is always a massive backstory you have to unpick, piece by piece. But ultimately you don't solve the problem without both sides coming to a conclusion that they need to come together and work together in condeming violent behaviour - and THEN working back from that point on dismantling the multiple driving forces behind it. The ongoing Republican v Democratic clash on this, prevents any level of sanity prevailing. And that means we are doomed to a cycle of repeat and escalation until a tipping point is eventually hit. Fuck knows where that lies, if its not with the murder of six people including three kids.

SquidwardBound · 30/03/2023 10:23

I think it’s @MNHQ haven’t deleted the conspiracy theorist type post.

Speculating that the murder of children and staff at a school was a ‘false flag operation’ cannot possibly be ‘in the spirit’ of anything.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 30/03/2023 10:08

I think this person is implying something worse.