Is the Trans shooter in Nashville Male or Female?

To tell others what they are allowed to talk about. the irony.

@Emotionalsupportviper

I agree

The importance is how this treated in the media. If combined MH problems and gender dysphoria were in combination here isn't that salient to overall motivation possibly?

@Whatsthefrequencykenny

Devestating tale all round.

I don't think there should be anything brushed under the carpet when it comes to reporting and due regard to the various factors that led to the perpetrator's state of mind should be examined.

If the British press wish to use the pronoun he they have to admit their reporting is in contradiction to the statement made by the local chief of police and explain that.

The incident highlights how difficult reporting becomes when there is so much mixed information on gender.

It highlights how the truth becomes obscured when political correctness is given priority over facts.

The number of genuinely transgender individuals is tiny.

The number of individuals with mental health problems who have been persuaded that they are transgender is huge. As is the number of misogynistic and/or perverted men who have seized this opportunity to indulge their hatred and their fetishes.

Total non-sequitur. Obviously not. I'll post where and when I like, thanks.

So true. Grieving families want to know everything about the circumstances of their loved one's death.
How can we possibly be distracting from the families' grief? Speculation about the victims might be hurtful, but this?

Also this is the sex and gender board so of course we're interested in that aspect of the killer and in how it is being reported. I have been musing whether (if the allegations about sexual abuse are true) whether abuse was a factor in Audrey claiming to be a man.

And you were dragged into this thread and forced to post here?

Polive have already said that her manifesto made references to gender ideology and that was a factor.

On her graphic design website that highights both personal and work pieces , she uses her birth name and says I am Audrey Hale.

Another complicating factor is that there were at least two substantiated cases of young girls being molested in the church connected to the school in the 2000 - 2007 era. The church covered up the sexual abuse and later said they had dealt with it internally but other church members were unaware that two child molestors had continued to be allowed to be members of the church until 2012 when a man spoke up and made the information public knowledge. It is quite possible that other girls attending the church or school also experienced abuse before 2012 that was covered up.

Nonsense. Trans people want their trans identity shouted from the rooftops when they perceive themselves to be the victims of crime; the same needs to be done when they are perpetrators of crimes.

This wouldn't be happening if this child murderer was male - as they usually are - and nor should it.

Unless you are a person whose job it is to identify which factors made the murderer, obviously.

OK, so no one is 'making excuses,' they are simply coming up with 'reasons' such as the 'dangerous combination' of testosterone (was this killer on testosterone, is this a fact?), feeling oppressed and neurodiversity. This wouldn't be happening if this child murderer was male - as they usually are - and nor should it.

It would be a start, though!

But your point is fair. Societal attitudes need to change as well.

Indeed.

The right in the US are criticised for using the same arguement to try and stop discussion of gun control right after a school shooting. But I can't say we'd ever be critical of that.

But when it comes to talking about society and alienation from society, why can't we talk about that right now?

That's not othering. That's saying there is a problem with society that's being ignored because it's easy to do that and pin all blame on often pretty vulnerable individuals. Where have these people been failed by society to a point that they feel they have no other option but to kill?

We never ask this question.

Murderers rarely just murder. There are inevitably multiple things that in retrospect are red flags and these almost always follow a predictable pattern. That means there is almost always opportunity for intervention before we get incidents like this.

There was some rather painful reporting by the BBC where the newscaster carefully chose not to use a sex or pronoun when describing the incident which sounded artificial. Footage was then shown of the police chief distinctly referring to the individual as female and she. The newscaster basically had to then hurriedly correct that the gender was uncertain due to the perpetrator's SM posts.

The whole piece just looked like distorted reporting on a heinous incident with gender identification somehow being as prioritised at the same level of a horrendous crime.

We await the contents if the manifesto.

And on that note we have British Transactivist charities actively promoting isolating kids / adults from families / friends if they don't adhere to ideology.

I find that alarming. And we should ask whether it could be potentially a big deal

This was not the starting point, this was a response to someone trying to shut down the discussion. The disrespect is telling us that you decide what we can talk about. you don't.

"intelligent, reasonable and articulate posters " are not the ones posting telling us all to shut it, while simultaneously posting incorrect information.

How is us talking about this here affecting them dealing with their loss? It clearly isn't.

The time and place for US to talk about this is here and now.

Why are you trying to silence talk? If you find it inappropriate, do not join the discussion. You don't get to shut us down.

The trans aspect of the case is very possibly at the centre of it.

Because of rules 1 & 8 of Misogyny

1. Women are responsible for what men do.

1. Men are whatever men say they are and women are whatever men say they are.

Therefore males who identify as transwomen are always transwomen even if they murder / perform sex crimes, but females who identify as transmen are always women even if they murder.

Sexism doesn't go away.

And this may or may not turn out to be relevant to this crime.

The inconstancy of reporting could be relevant to causes because if sexism remains and drives motivation in someway its important: eg is it driving extremely toxic gender stereotypes or would it drive a belief in not being respected as male therefore needing to somehow 'prove' it?

No act of murder happens in a bubble. Every murderer has fallen through the cracks in society in one way or another.

Access to guns is one part of school shootings but we really do need to start waking up to the other part of the equation with school shootings - almost without fail we see the same pattern of detachment from society and hate for society from loners who have been unable to engage with society.

Why?

Mentally ill people bombarded with messages that they are the most hated group and are in danger of genocide, and gun/knife imagery alongside slogans like kill terfs is only going to head one way

Yep. You only have to look at the escalating behaviours of the trans activists at events for women and lesbians. Behaviours that are being encouraged and applauded because apparently.

Sometimes you can identify a single post as the starting point for a thread to degenerate and for me this is it. It’s insulting on so many levels. Accusing a poster of attacking others for making a reasonable point, while at the same doing exactly the same thing by ramming a personal POV down the throat of that poster, and simultaneously accusing intelligent, articulate and reasonable contributors of being unable to either think or care about more than one thing at a time - presumably because they also don’t agree with their own POV.

We’re all perfectly capable of intellectual multi-tasking, but, newsflash, some of us can also prioritise the most, from the least important or relevant.

When there have been mass shootings in the UK, we quickly ask questions about how and why. We don't say "let's not worry about that and think of the families instead".

Many of the victims' families go on to campaign about something, they start to ask how and why.

There have been plenty of discussions around the Plymouth gunman, I don't recall people refusing to discuss that person's background.

It seems that because it is the trans topic people are desperately trying to deflect attention away from it.

Nobody is offended, and again, we are capable of both. Why aren't you?

Wouldn’t disagree with any of that in time. But FFS let them come to terms with the deaths of their loved ones first !! There’s a time and place, and it’s not here or now.

How long do we get between school shootings in the US, when is an appropriate time to discuss the issues? As for 'place', where is suitable?

I am very sorry but I think that TRAs have got a lot to answer for.

We have all seen placards with Kill Terfs and Decapitate Terfs. We have all seen Trans Identifying individuals with anime figures on the internet or pictures of themselves holding guns and threatening violence. At the very LEAST trans lobby groups should have been condemning this, instead they at best ignore it, at worse call women, such as KJK Nazis for speaking about issues.

We obviously do not know what was in this individual's 'manifesto' but one exists. The killers is personally responsible and I am not suggesting otherwise but there has been a narrative at least allowed, if not encouraged by TRAs that this is an issue that you should be prepared to kill for. This is the logical conclusion.

That letter asking for the murderer to be forgiven because their life was so hard is despicable. They should be 100% condemning this. Not asking for sympathy.

And those on this thread saying that gender isn't relevant can do one. It seems it was relevant.

It is also clear that any woman who thinks gender remove sexism is being sold a lie. The media knows who the females are.

Yes, the circumstances are if you are a woman.