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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Starmer rowing back on self ID - what do we think?

705 replies

JohnnyMcGrathSaysFuckOff · 23/03/2023 13:18

The Times is reporting in its live politics feed that KS has explicitly said Labour will not push for self ID without public backing. I know not everyone can access their content so here is a copied n pasted version: what do you think?

Sir Keir Starmer has shifted Labour’s position on transgender rights as he said the bitter rows over Scotland’s Gender Recognition Bill showed the party must consider public opinion on the issue.The leader of the Labour Party has previously insisted it was committed to updating the Gender Recognition Act to introduce self-identification for transgender people.However, in a significant shift in Labour’s policy, he said the backlash over the SNP’s gender reform bill had made him think again. The SNP passed legislation this year that would make it significantly easier for people to acquire a gender recognition certificate and reduced the minimum age for doing so to 16. The bill was blocked by the UK government.Starmer said: “I think that if we reflect on what’s happened in Scotland, the lesson I take from that is that if you’re going to make reforms, you have to carry the public with you.

“And I think that’s a very important message and I think that’s why it’s clear that in Scotland, there should be a reset of the situation.”

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BellaAmorosa · 23/03/2023 14:11

RosaBonheur · 23/03/2023 14:06

Don't get me wrong, it is for me now as well, because it's a women's rights issue.

What I meant was, with all the major problems the country has experienced over the last 15 years or so and is continuing to experience today, what on earth made people within the Labour Party think, "But you know what really is the most important priority right now? Making it easier for trans people to get a piece of paper saying they've changed sex even though they haven't, and to use single sex spaces and compete in sports for the opposite sex! Tackling poverty and knife crime and fixing the NHS are of secondary importance compared to this!"

And ironically, @RosaBonheur, TRAs love to use all those other serious and pressing problems to make whataboutery points.

pieceofpasta · 23/03/2023 14:08

Toseland · 23/03/2023 13:29

Tell you what Starmer, i'm not voting Labour until 'Repeal the GRA' is in your manifesto.

Yes I was going to say the same. The other thing is Starmer might not be the leader for ever. Someone like Nandy could take over.

BellaAmorosa · 23/03/2023 14:07

FOJN · 23/03/2023 13:26

If his position had changed in response to public opinion it wouldn't have taken him so long.

He saw what happened to Nicola Sturgeon and decided it would harm his chances of winning the next election if he was repeatedly being asked to define what a woman was and he's he's giving the TRA's time to get it out of their system before hand.

Why has it been such a pressing issue for the Labour party for so long and now all of a sudden it isn't, have they stopped caring about the most marginalised and oppressed or didn't they really believe that narrative to begin with?

This.

It's ironic that the political grouping that loves purity spirals is so lacking in principle when it comes to getting elected.

I just hope that if it does nothing else, this fiasco teaches Starmer and Labour to be honest and not talk out of both sides of their mouth.

RosaBonheur · 23/03/2023 14:06

DrMarciaFieldstone · 23/03/2023 13:40

It’s the number one voting issue for me.

Don't get me wrong, it is for me now as well, because it's a women's rights issue.

What I meant was, with all the major problems the country has experienced over the last 15 years or so and is continuing to experience today, what on earth made people within the Labour Party think, "But you know what really is the most important priority right now? Making it easier for trans people to get a piece of paper saying they've changed sex even though they haven't, and to use single sex spaces and compete in sports for the opposite sex! Tackling poverty and knife crime and fixing the NHS are of secondary importance compared to this!"

EdithStourton · 23/03/2023 14:00

He's not saying, 'I now realise I was wrong about the trans issue and have changed my mind about the morality of men in women's sports, buggering up teenagers' bodies and all the rest.'

Nope, he's saying, 'I have suddenly clocked that pushing the trans issue is a massive vote-loser, look at Nicola, so I'll pop it on the back burner for a while.'

Yeah...no.

C-, must try harder.

ExiledElsie · 23/03/2023 13:53

Definitely not enough to get my vote yet. But I think he must now be aware that the conformity within the party is not representative of normal people. Scotland has shown that.

DrMarciaFieldstone · 23/03/2023 13:50

Yes, see this now, thanks!

SquirrelSoShiny · 23/03/2023 13:47

TheHouseElf · 23/03/2023 13:42

Doing it just for women's vote, but he won't be getting mine. Won't vote for anyone who believes any BS that goes against biological facts, and isn't prepared to say it so.

This x 1000

Labour is a lost cause now

LizzieSiddal · 23/03/2023 13:46

I’m glad to hear this statement, I suspect the Scottish rapist in a woman’s prison has made them really think for the first time, what their policy would actually mean.

I now want to hear all the front bench answer the question “What is a woman?”

Beowulfa · 23/03/2023 13:44

I think he's weak and duplicitous and only "rowing back" half a splash in order not to look quite as stupid as Sturgeon whilst hoping those awful women shut up and it all goes away.

TheHouseElf · 23/03/2023 13:42

Doing it just for women's vote, but he won't be getting mine. Won't vote for anyone who believes any BS that goes against biological facts, and isn't prepared to say it so.

MarshaBradyo · 23/03/2023 13:42

He wants to go ahead but looking at SNP is now scared of losing votes

Neither qualities are good and TRAs are still embedded in his party

amillionrosepetals · 23/03/2023 13:42

Shmithecat2 · 23/03/2023 13:26

He's doing it for votes. Duplicitous tosser.

Well said.

JohnnyMcGrathSaysFuckOff · 23/03/2023 13:42

@DrMarciaFieldstone I suspect that pp is thinking more along the lines of 'given the country is a complete shitshow why have LP been prioritising reforming GRA' rather than that women shouldn't worry about it.

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Mimosa08 · 23/03/2023 13:41

He can fuck off

DrMarciaFieldstone · 23/03/2023 13:40

RosaBonheur · 23/03/2023 13:34

Why has it ever been a pressing issue for the Labour Party?

We've had a pandemic, Brexit, a cost of living crisis and a decade plus of Tory cuts. Why is this even on their radar?

It’s the number one voting issue for me.

OneLongSmorgasbord · 23/03/2023 13:36

I don't believe a word he says. The party is still full of TRAs.
He's saying this because he saw the SNP/Nicola Sturgeon debacle and can see that it could cause trouble.
Bear in mind that when he says he'll get public backing, he will talk to specially selected trans groups and no one else that might be affected.

JohnnyMcGrathSaysFuckOff · 23/03/2023 13:34

@FOJN My own suspicion is that no, they never really cared about 'the most oppressed' etc beyond a small band of hardliners, and that LP leadership effectively outsourced their thinking to that group. I think many haven't really thought it through properly, hence e.g. Rayner's recent uncharacteristic stumbling when pushed in that Sunday Times interview.

I suspect there is a mixture of less-hardline folk in the LP leadership actually waking up thanks to Bryson/ Sturgeon, and others who continue to believe but realise it might turn into a vote-loser.

Especially given media comments in last year from Sunak, Raab, Badenoch who are (comparatively) unembarrassed about the whole thing.

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RosaBonheur · 23/03/2023 13:34

Toseland · 23/03/2023 13:29

Tell you what Starmer, i'm not voting Labour until 'Repeal the GRA' is in your manifesto.

This.

RosaBonheur · 23/03/2023 13:34

FOJN · 23/03/2023 13:26

If his position had changed in response to public opinion it wouldn't have taken him so long.

He saw what happened to Nicola Sturgeon and decided it would harm his chances of winning the next election if he was repeatedly being asked to define what a woman was and he's he's giving the TRA's time to get it out of their system before hand.

Why has it been such a pressing issue for the Labour party for so long and now all of a sudden it isn't, have they stopped caring about the most marginalised and oppressed or didn't they really believe that narrative to begin with?

Why has it ever been a pressing issue for the Labour Party?

We've had a pandemic, Brexit, a cost of living crisis and a decade plus of Tory cuts. Why is this even on their radar?

happydappy2 · 23/03/2023 13:31

The Gender Recognition Act needs to be repealed, urgently. Why should ANY male have legal recognition as a woman?

Toseland · 23/03/2023 13:29

Tell you what Starmer, i'm not voting Labour until 'Repeal the GRA' is in your manifesto.

MarshaBradyo · 23/03/2023 13:28

Jonei · 23/03/2023 13:20

It would take a lot more than that to trust him. He's not fit for purpose.

This.

FOJN · 23/03/2023 13:26

If his position had changed in response to public opinion it wouldn't have taken him so long.

He saw what happened to Nicola Sturgeon and decided it would harm his chances of winning the next election if he was repeatedly being asked to define what a woman was and he's he's giving the TRA's time to get it out of their system before hand.

Why has it been such a pressing issue for the Labour party for so long and now all of a sudden it isn't, have they stopped caring about the most marginalised and oppressed or didn't they really believe that narrative to begin with?

Shmithecat2 · 23/03/2023 13:26

He's doing it for votes. Duplicitous tosser.