Labour ‘must fix its trans stance to win the next election’ - party needs to clarify its policies to be closer to the public’s views on the debate

Also, I think the Scottish situation is instructive, and troubling.

Labour whipped their MSPs to vote for the GRR (and, apparently, lied misspoke about it on national TV). That's pretty extreme legislation. There's a fair amount of speculation that Sarwar had to do this as most Labour MSPs opposed the bill/believed their constituents opposed it. The SNP is at least admitting there are issues, but Sarwar is still front and centre bigging it up. And he says that Starmer is in complete agreement with him (except for a few pesky details like whether it's within Holyrood's power to legislate and whether the lower age limit should be 16 vs 18).

Starmer MUST be clear about where UK Labour stands re women's rights to single-sex (not -gender) spaces, services, facilities, and accomodations - whether those plans are for protecting, eroding, eliminating, or ignoring them.

The metropolitan middle classes, and the youth, are now the core Labour vote

Which is why they are screwed and having to be nice to women of the boring old cunty type until the next GE. And why their lead in the polls may not translate into electoral victory. Their vote is highly concentrated into a small number of constituencies, and their core supporters skew young and therefore less likely to vote.

I don't think the Tories will hold the entire Red Wall, but I don't think it will return to Labour en masse either. There is not enough in Labour's current policies to appeal to a broad demographic, and the 'men can have cervixes' stuff makes them look ridiculous and untrustworthy, even to voters who don't care about women's rights.

If they had brainstormed for a year, I'm not sure they could have come up with a policy more likely to repel voters than rapists in women's prisons. Even the 'law and order, string them up' types hate it because it's giving rapists what they want. And yet Labour chose to vote against the amendment to the Scottish GRR that would have excluded rapists from self-ID. They have brought this on themselves.

Nails it.

It probably references anyone who does not live in a big, university city. The metropolitan middle classes, and the youth, are now the core Labour vote.

It is irritating. I was quite pleased when Starmer took over as Corbyn wasn’t what I wanted.

It’s a shame for them as my vote has never been fixed on loyalty and easily swayed.

But they don’t want my vote, fine. Plus I look at Labour elsewhere and it just looks more hopeless.

Labour supporters are so bad at hearing criticism the old lines are all they’ve got

It's the utter hypocrisy. Labour were warned, time and time and time again, by women who were side-lined at best, abused and threatened at worst. They would not listen - they insisted that they were right, and we were bigots and dinosaurs.

And now, when it has finally dawned on them that they might need us to win the GE, they are all wide-eyed innocence: "Oh that stuff we said. Or course that doesn't mean anything. Of course we'll support women." How stupid do they think we are?

Labour are not proposing any of this, they do not even have a manifesto on this... its just Tory smear

Starmer is on video saying he will introduce self ID.

www.thepinknews.com/2021/06/10/keir-starmer-labour-party-gender-recognition-act-self-id-trans-people-pride/

Starmer did a chat on MN a while ago, where he was asked a question about how Labour would introduce self ID and also maintain/improve single sex spaces.

He didn't answer that question.

I don't think that the Labour party is going to be effecting much in the way of dramatic change to any of the things that you suggest people are concerned about. They'll be tinkering around the edges, making symbolic tweaks at best.
The Left of the Labour party detests Kier Starmer as they think he has abandoned all Labour values in pursuit of being elected, and some of the people he has recently put on the front bench are considered dreaded 'Blairites'.

Revolutionary change is not going to happen any time soon.

But Gender Self Id is very radical, and once implemented it will be difficult to un-do; and it will further cement gender ideology and queer theory in all of it manifestations.

For those of us used to voting Labour as an instinctive habit it is this which has broken that bond; and in breaking that allegiance it permits one to view the situation with a less tribal mind-set. I'll be spoiling my ballot, as I did last time, because there is not a hope in hell I'll be voting for Kim Johnson, my local Labour MP. Perhaps if she was vocal about women's rights and single sex meaning single sex I'd certainly be nore tempted - but she's the opposite. If I had a decent conservative MP who I liked, I'd be tempted to vote for them; but the Conservatives have never been elected where I live for many, many decades. I might take a look at who they stand and then make my mind up.

Whether you approve of, or like, the Tories is neither here nor there when it come to this issue. It is only they who have made the appropriate 'noises' and taken the appropriate actions to halt the march of gender identity theory.

Personally, I think Kemi Badenoch is awesome, even if i don't agree with her on absolutely everything. And I think Sunak is a good guy who is doing a good job in difficult circumstances. There are other Tories that I like and admire and who aren't evil just because they are conservatives.

Conservatives aare more interested in protecting ssingle sex provisions because they know they are needed, and because they achieve what they are meant to. That is the nature of conservatism. You don't throw out things that work or that are functional just for the sake of ideological change.

It’ll be interesting to see if Labour supporters pick up on this and put accountability to right person

I'd also like to add to MissLucy's list adding men to all women shortlists and putting men through the Jo Cox Women in Leadership programme.

How can anyone say that Labour will put women first when they've made it clear time and again that they absolutely incapable of prioritising women?

Just look at the Met after 13 years, pissing on recruits inc women, rape victim told to work with their abuser, homophobic, racist, destruction of evidence to be used in rape cases or rape may as well be legalised according to the latest report.

The London Mayor has responsibility for the Met, that'll be Sadiq Khan, Labour and in post for the last 7 years.

Whilst much of the current shit show isn't on Labour, voting for them is a green light to worse on this specific issue.

Labour supporters are so bad at hearing criticism the old lines are all they’ve got.

I see polls are slipping and they won’t be able to say no one said what the issues were.

TBF you don’t know me at all so you don’t get to say.

I have voted Labour but don’t like this iteration, I don’t need your approval though.

Same old response though from someone like you so no surprise.

All of the MPs you quote aren't responsible for the lack of single sex spaces in prisons, hospitals etc right now. who is responsible for this current state of affairs?

Ooh, let's think, when was the GRA passed?

TBF Marsha, you are a dyed in the Wool Tory, you were never open minded about voting Labour, so no surprise, you back the cons on all their policies across many threads, thats fair enough.

I voted for Boris and feel conned.

the point here is the present Govt is being let off the hook for 13 years of destroying womens rights but instead of holding them to account, we are holding a (non existent) Labour Government to account instead for things they have zero control over

I think you'll find that many of us agree with you on the first part - the present Government is being let off the hook. But that is entirely Labour's doing. They have spent the last decade ignoring women, allowing them to be shouted down, making teenage boys Women's Officers, expelling feminists from the party, refusing to meet women with concerns, voting to allow rapists to be housed in women's prisons in Scotland, and allowing GC female MPs to be publicly abused by their colleagues. And now you want us to believe that they might change their minds before the next GE?

I have never voted Tory. I work in the NHS - I confront the damage that their policies are doing every day. I am furious with Labour that they have left me politically homeless, and forced to tolerate a party that I despise, because it's my only hope of holding on to my fundamental human rights.

@MissLucyEyelesbarrow All of the MPs you quote aren't responsible for the lack of single sex spaces in prisons, hospitals etc right now.

who is responsible for this current state of affairs?

Like i said, if this is Labours official stance in their next manifesto then my view of Labour will change.

Thanks for posting those Lucy

They can forget it. No chance from me.

She is an idiot, thankfully, Long Bailey isn't even in the Shadow Cabinet, shall i quote T. May on trans rights or Jamie Wallace?

And under the tories, 50% of women who need a DV refuge are turned away.

what do you say to these women?

oh & who introduced a tax on panic rooms installed for victims of violence? Yes they cancelled it but the Tories thought it a good idea at the time, says it all on their thinking.

Or Alex Sobel?

Or David Tammy?

Will Lisa Nandy stop believing this in the next 18 months?

the GE is in 18months time (ish) we know policies and prioritises will change over that time period

Will Rebecca Long-Bailey stop believing this?

Of course we do, because the GE is in 18months time (ish) we know policies and prioritises will change over that time period.

I 'm not scolding anyone, believe what you want but the point here is the present Govt is being let off the hook for 13 years of destroying womens rights but instead of holding them to account, we are holding a (non existent) Labour Government to account instead for things they have zero control over.

If Labour don't back women rights, then they wont get my vote either but i 'll adopt a wait and see atm.