Labour ‘must fix its trans stance to win the next election’ - party needs to clarify its policies to be closer to the public’s views on the debate

And please don't tell me to wait for the manifesto. I don't need to. Keir Starmer told Pink News that Labour will be introducing self-ID only a few weeks ago.

Quite. Starmer is on video for christ sake, saying he will introduce self ID. Now if he has done a massive u turn and changed his mind, then let's hear it, explicitly and unequivocally. Then I will think about it, but fudging a position just won't cut it.

I'm not sure why you are struggling with that, given that Labour have explicitly said they will make it legal, and the Tories have explicitly said that they won't.

The Equality Act allows the segregation of certain facilities and services by sex, and explicitly allows the exclusion of people with a GRC in some cases. Having a GRC allows someone to be treated as their adopted sex in most cases, but not all.

The problem with the GRR Bill in Scotland, and with what Labour have said that they want to enact here, is that it will become impossible to identify anyone by biological sex. So the EA will still say that some women's facilities can be single-sex, but that will be meaningless because your sex will be what you say it is.

And please don't tell me to wait for the manifesto. I don't need to. Keir Starmer told Pink News that Labour will be introducing self-ID only a few weeks ago.

(Of course policies other than gender come into play when making the impossible choice, but Labour display similar cognitive dissonance and detachment from reality on multiple issues. So do you pick the party that will do awful things because they believe in them; or the one that will do awful things because the polls/lobbyists/activists tell them to and they don't know what's real?)

This is what it comes down to for me. Have never and will probably never vote Tory. I think they're terrible.

But Labour are looking pretty appalling too. Genuinely, what are we supposed to do if all the parties look like they are going to make life even worse?

It is the labour market apparently, and the economy strengthening with very low unemployment

Inflation will fall it’s a mathematical certainty due to lowering energy prices

This was from radio this am various analysts etc

The worst inflation is food inflation. That is driven in large part by Brexit impacting on the cost of imported food - the UK imports a lot - and on labour shortages in the areas where the UK does produce food.

Keir Starmer has said "..Britain will not go back into the EU. We will not be joining the single market. We will not be joining a customs union."

The best he can offer with regard to Brexit's effect on food imports is that Labour will try to negotiate a new veterinary agreement for agri-products between the UK and EU - details unspecified and dependent, of course, on the EU's attitude.

So on food inflation in particular, I wouldn't recommend holding one's breath.

It may be that people won't vote Tory because of inflation.

I am much less sure what Labour will be able to do about it though. I suspect they might end up being quite disappointing in that area.

It really shouldn't be too much to ask for the Labour Party to realise that women and children exist and deserve safeguarding.

In fact it shouldn't be too much to ask of any politician.

They must be walking around with their eyes closed if they can't see the harm that this ideology does to vulnerable women and to children. The evidence is there. Women are being harmed by male inmates in prison. Women are being raped on what should be single sex NHS wards. The Cass review is comprehensive in the harms of the kind of social transitioning which has, and still, is taking place in schools.

It really should be a no - brainer. But instead we still have 'left-wing' men calling women Nazi's for having the temerity of pointing these things out.

So sorry what Kier Starmer has said is not enough. No where near. He is not a stupid man. He knows the impact of the misrepresentation of the Equality Act encouraged by a lobby group. He has women in his family.

But the truth is he cares more about appeasing the bigots in his party. The bigots who put men's rights above the safety and dignity of vulnerable women and children.

Well, we are due a debate on updating the Equality Act, so I will be carefully watching what each of the major parties has to say about that.

I want the Tories out of Government. They are unfit to rule. However, that does not make Labour an automatic option and given how Stonewall has Stanmer's ear, I am very wary of supporting them. I've watched how this shitshow developed in Ireland and it's done entirely behind closed doors with a nod and wink between men. Labour's not any better in that respect.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/sep/22/uk-government-drops-gender-self-identification-plan-for-trans-people

So, basically what you are saying is not so much that you will watch and wait and see what is in the manifesto - but that you don't care whethere it is or not because as far as you are concerned Self Id is already legal ( which it actually isn't as I highlighted before).

If it is already legal ( by your definition) then why do you think Starmer keeps on saying it is "too intrusive" and "needs to be modernised?"

This “what do women want” question is deeply misogynistic. They should know that women want the same things as men. Equality, safety, fairness in work, the home and sport.
Labour should be looking at how to deliver equality, safety and fairness, I’ll give them a clue, erasing women, safeguarding and single sex provisions is not the way forward.

There’s enough noise on this if Labour want to listen. If they don’t and it contributes to losing it is entirely on them.

I will not be guilted out of pragmatic voting because you don't agree with my priorities.

This is excellent and should be repeated often.

Self ID is already here, its perfectly legal without surgery

Self ID does not mean 'without surgery'.

I'm really struggling with the narrative that it isn't and its horrible Labour who will make it legal and the Tories will defend our rights.

There is Stonewall law and the actual law. Self ID is not enshrined in UK law. Fighting the cultural changes which allow people to self ID into single sex spaces is far easier than trying to get an actual law repealed. Labour have not taken making self ID law off the table.

Please do not make the mistake of assuming I think the Conservatives are feminists, I do not and I will not be guilted out of pragmatic voting because you don't agree with my priorities.

@fojn Self ID is already here, its perfectly legal without surgery, as i posted up earlier, its all on Gov.uk.

I'm really struggling with the narrative that it isn't and its horrible Labour who will make it legal and the Tories will defend our rights.

100% this. Esp your last sentence.

Which is why i will be waiting until manifesto's published.

But one nail in the coffin for the Conservatives is inflation, its rising, 10.4% with food inflation at 18%! 18 fucking %!!!

Who does this hit the hardest? yes women, lower wages (generally) and more likely to be managing household budgets.

Meanwhile, Eurozone inflation is 8.5% and falling, in the US its 6%.

So more mismanagement of the economy.

Nope, because the majority of the posters on here have already made their minds up "too late for me, wont be getting my vote" whilst never having any intention to vote Labour or consider it

I am neither a Labour or a Conservative voter but I will vote for anyone who states what a woman is and that they will not introduce self ID. Not is correct that things will be even worse if self ID becomes law and things are pretty bad now.

Labour, Libdems and Greens will not get my vote because they have actively participated in abusing women. The bar for my vote is so low that the Tories passivity seems preferable. Twenty year old me can barely believe that 50's me is even writing that statement but I've had enough of spoiling my ballot.

Labour don't stand a chance in my constituency but we can get rid of the Libdem bestowed on us by low voter turn out in a by election, I do not my intend to waste my vote again so will almost certainly vote Conservative, it will not be an endorsement.

Have you never heard the interpretation that the two political extremes of left and right meet round the back and are the same as each other?
This is how National Socialism in Germany can be viewed as right wing despite having socialism in its name.

Yes it is.

I've voted Labour my entire life. This betrayal feels like I've come home from work to find my husband snorting coke off a prostitute's tits on the dining room table. I'm appalled, disappointed and angry. But I'm not naive or stupid.

This is the best and most apt analogy I think I've ever read for it!

You can feel the distaste as, once every GE cycle, Labour/the Greens/the LibDems are forced to deal with "women over 50". Shouldn't they have all just died on their last fuckable date? At the very least, they should just shut up and do the grunt work of envelope-stuffing, so that the Clever Young Men can focus on the important stuff.

Quite.

Wow that thread is quite something. Poster after poster citing trans issues as their reason not to vote Labour - and that's in AIBU, not over here in the naughty feminist gulag.

Unfortunately, as just demonstrated by Sturgeon's speech, you'll get the same response as from Brown all those years back when he accidentally showed his true colours in public by pretending to listen thoughtfully to an elderly woman describing her experience and then informing his aids she was just a bigot.

Anyone who does not share in the superior views is not a worthy human, has nothing of interest or relevance to offer, and is smelly and the Wrong Sort.

Yes somehow they will still expect to win an election being voted in purely by those they haven't Non Humaned.

According to the Political Compass I'm way left of Labour. Even as it stood under Corbyn I could just about see them on the Eastern horizon. Painting the whole of their opposition as right wing is miles from the truth.