Labour ‘must fix its trans stance to win the next election’ - party needs to clarify its policies to be closer to the public’s views on the debate

I’m glad they have at least realised it’s going to be significant in the election.

At our local election, the Labour candidate told us he'd heard it repeatedly on the doorsteps. They had their heads in the sand. Still do, I'm sure.

Not to mention as has been seen repeatedly (Brexit a major example) what people say as their intention and their actual intention when it matters, are often two very different things. Some of which may be using a theoretical vote as an indication of anger and protest against one of the two major parties, and some of which may be the current forced narrative that no good person ever votes anything but Labour. And yet in the ballot box.....

I'm reminded of the days when people used to come to FWR to tell us how silly we were and that there were only six of us and our sock puppets anyway. They don't do that so much nowadays.

The fact is that a lot of scots who are in favour of independence are not progressives in the manner of the SNP in its recent guise. The SNP actually used to be referred to as the Tartan Tories.

Most people are not in favour of self ID when they actually know what it implies; and that includes many of the core SNP vote.

The new women's movement has been grassroots in origin - and only recently picked up by the media. That's great as far as I'm concerend and I don't care which media has picked up on it. 'No debate' is now over.

Ah, gotcha 🙂

The "culture war", in this instance, is being waged by the left and so called progressives. They are alienating a growing number of people, and there is bound to be push back.

The fight against reform to the GRA was grassroots in origin; it is only in the last couple of years that the Times ( via Janice Turner) picked up on it. They knew that their subscriptions had risen in alarge part due to disaffected old lefties who could no longer stomach The Guardian.

Cultural issues are increasingly important; so trying to dismiss them as " justculture wars" is to under-estimate their importance. We've already seen what happens when the progressive left abandons its previous core demographics in favour of educated, middle class city dwellers.

The Labour party in its current form is not very popular with anyone, let alone its own membership - many of whom hate Kier Starmer. That it is ahead in the polls is down to 13 years of the same bunch in power plus all of the other issues around rising fuel and food prices. I'm not sure that many people have high hopes for what they are going to be able to achieve.

Oh I was agreeing with her 😀

I think that's @Kucinghitam 's point (she is being ironic).

Some have been scoffing at how unimportant it all
is for ages. Long enough to see Penny M and NS to go…

If the Tories have any sense, these quotes will be on election posters! Truly disgraceful set of statements from MPs who should know better.
What female MP can really believe TWAW? A very dumb one who can never represent me.

Since this is a teeny-tiny unimportant fringe issue only concerning a teeny-tiny unimportant subset of an eternally unimportant insignificant demographic (middle-aged partially-sentient support bipeds) and Labour are enjoying a completely unassailable lead in the polls, it greatly puzzles me why anybody feels the need to scold the aforementioned teeny-tiny teeny-tiny teeny-tiny unimportant insignificant nobodies for being disobliging in where they choose to put (or not put) their X.

do not for a moment be kidded that the Tory's stance is feminist or in remotely good faith towards women.

@Echobelly If you read through the whole thread and similar threads you will see that not many are claiming they love the Tory govt. It's just that rather a lot of us have an issue voting for a party that thinks TWAW and that women's rights and child safe-guiding have no value. Some of Labour are on record saying a woman can have a penis FFS. How can you take anyone seriously, let alone trust them to run the country who thinks that ? 😂

The media and a noisy minority on social media amplified by Mail, Telegraph and Co largely brought Sturgeon down.

Can happen to anyone. Starmer already knows it hence fence sitting and trying to push the issue away.

He doesn’t want to go off in his face too. We’ll see. GEs can bring up issues that were not polling just a short bit of time previously as Corbyn found out with antisemitism.

The media and a noisy minority on social media amplified by Mail, Telegraph and Co largely brought Sturgeon down

Ah yes, the Scottish Indy movement hangs on Viscount Rothermere's every word.

The media and a noisy minority on social media amplified by Mail, Telegraph and Co largely brought Sturgeon down. Yes, the issues have been raised in public profile but that doesn't necessarily translate to a mass vote-influencer when every other issue in this country is considered.

The Tories don't give a fuck about women, but a culture war is a handy weapon to batter people your voters don't like because it covers for the fact you have nothing whatsoever to offer to actually improve the lives of most of the British public. Not saying Labour does either, but do not for a moment be kidded that the Tory's stance is feminist or in remotely good faith towards women.

Not for the majority, no - but it will be for enough people to keep it in the debate. Also Kemi Badenoch is not going to let this go - and she'll be awesome in opposition.

We've come a long way in the last six years or so. We've manged to get it into the public realm and into the media. It was disastrous for the SNP - and Labour will hopefully learn from that.

Cultural issues are becoming increasingly imporant for many people; it is no longer just about economics and class; and the fact is that many of those people that used to be represented bty the Labour Party are far more conservative on social and cultural issues than they profess to be.

Yes I agree.
Not just we women who need protection. What about the children too? No one in Labour has said anything about the Tavistock Scandal that I can see. Does Labour even care about British children?

I was horrified to read this morning on a Glinner Substack update that Switzerland has been allowing children as young as 10-14 to have surgical trans operations with parental consent

grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/a-week-in-the-war-on-women-monday-fb0

It proper put me off my cornflakes 😡.

The negative publicity around reform of the GRR didn't do much for Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP as a whole - they lost rather a lot of members if recent revelations are to be believed.

I think the point is that by keeping the issue in the public consciousness The Labour party is going to have its feet held to the fire in every interview going forward whenever this comes up. Even if it doesn't prevent Labour being elected it is going to make for a very uncomfortable situation for them. A lot of light will be shone on the ramifications of queer theory in practice and they will no longer be able to operate in darkness behind the scenes - and they know it.

I don't know who electoral calculus are but I do know that what they are showing on their website is total bollocks.

They have my constituency (a very, very safe Conservative seat) likely to swing >80% Labour at the next GE. It's just not going to happen. Goodness only knows what they are basing their stats on.

Even in the heady days of New Labour this constituency stayed Conservative and has been like that for 100 years.

Ha at this. Yes of course he is.

That's an impressive margin.
But Labour do have form for snatching defeat from the jaws of victory..
Whilst I would broadly agree that trans rights are not on the top of the list of priorities for most people, situations like the rapist in Scotland attract a lot of attention and very little support.
Most people don't think about lots of things until it either becomes personal or unavoidable.

Yeah, to me what has been revealed more clearly over the past few years is something deeper and more worriesom.

The fact that the leftist collectivist authoritarian thing wasn't a weird blip in the first half of the 20th century, but seems to be a real cancer in the bud for left politics.

The fact that they have wholesale adopted id politics thinking, but also that this reveals a problem in the way they think about groups and class analysis more generally, which is why they were so vulnerable to this. Specifically, that differences between groups, even disparities, are not always inherently unfair or discriminatory even if they are negative, and also that what we could as a group may or may not have real validity and is game that it is very easy to cheat at.

Serious issues in the way party politics happen on that side of the fence.

Serious questions around the whole idea of social progress, and around freedom as the most important facet of human life.

Plus the fact that it's pretty clear now that these are very much the parties of the urban upper middle class university graduate and that they despise those who aren't from that group.

Given the polling, I'm not certain that Labour need to fix anything to win the next election.

www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/prediction_main.html

Managed to copy and paste and then delete a bit in my post

Ahem.
Labour may not be claiming Brexit is a brilliant buccaneering big-British-bollocks success...

Self ID isn’t just about the issue itself, it’s also about credibility, competence and common sense.

yup

it’s about that special sort of elitism where people think they can get me to say that black is white and men are women

fuck off with that shit

I’m just never going to vote for a party that shows so little respect to voters